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Kiwiwomble

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I always see ABs fans complain about the AIG on the front but as far as sponsors go it’s one of the far less visually intrusive and looks perfectly fine in my opinion. Is it something about the company itself that people have an issue with?
Definitely not a fan of a company that lost people billions and had to be bailed out by the government going on to drop millions on sponsorships a couple of years later, even more so when you consider my second annoyance

that’s not their logo…it’s just the letters, so not only does it look like a training top with the players initials on it…people don’t know inherently what it means…because it’s not aig’s logo…that’s basic marketing, in a world where other sponsors won’t even change the colour of their logo to work better (I’m looking at you NAB / blues) it’s mind boggling a company would bastardise theirs when it’s already so simple…which makes it an even bigger waste of money
 

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Definitely not a fan of a company that lost people billions and had to be bailed out by the government going on to drop millions on sponsorships a couple of years later, even more so when you consider my second annoyance

that’s not their logo…it’s just the letters, so not only does it look like a training top with the players initials on it…people don’t know inherently what it means…because it’s not aig’s logo…that’s basic marketing, in a world where other sponsors won’t even change the colour of their logo to work better (I’m looking at you NAB / blues) it’s mind boggling a company would bastardise theirs when it’s already so simple…which makes it an even bigger waste of money
Wasn’t bailed out by my government. Must have been one of those less-democratic lot up north.

It’s pretty sad when we have the choice between financial leeches or filthy petrochem.

Can’t Whittaker’s afford it? Maybe Weta, if those geeks were fans, could, but the nzrfu don’t seem to gaf who it is as long as they can pay the tab.
 

Kiwiwomble

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Wasn’t bailed out by my government. Must have been one of those less-democratic lot up north.

It’s pretty sad when we have the choice between financial leeches or filthy petrochem.

Can’t Whittaker’s afford it? Maybe Weta, if those geeks were fans, could, but the nzrfu don’t seem to gaf who it is as long as they can pay the tab.
in fairness, ineos are also one of the world leaders in renewable energy sources...so, a bit of a mixed bag
 

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So foster has been re signed til after the World Cup. Not really sure what to say about it….

…. ive never been convinced by foster, thought he was an odd choice when he came in as assistant, and certainly wasn’t successful when he was head coach of Waikato. I’m not to know how well he coaches of course, i only see results, and results are about more than one person. So I’ve been open minded that maybe he is alright.

what I have liked is that he has identified the same issue I did in terms of our failings at the World Cup - the opposite coach worked us out, and we didnt adapt. And he identified the same solution I did - that the players need to be able to adapt, to be less programmed in their ways, rather than just having more plans available to pick from. And because I’m always right, foster must be too.

taking this approach takes time, will inevitably result in a steep learning curve for players (especially players coming from more structured teams, highlanders players have no issue), so a lack of results at first, and so in that sense I can forgive an imperfect record.

but despite me always being right, does this approach put too much pressure on the players? World cups are stressful events and most players don’t cope, aren’t able to think under that extra pressure. I think you need a mix of leaving it up to the players and developing alternative plans they can draw from. Have we gone too far with the former? Perhaps we will develop the latter at a later point.

and then there’s Scott Robertson. Very successful, and there’s no evidence to suggest hes anything but the best coach available. But you do have to wonder, given his highly structured approach and the quality of opposition coaches, will his success translate to the next level? I think the important thing would be to get the right assistants. If he was able to get tony brown, I think that combination would work.

then there’s gatland. No.

as for now I think I am ok with foster.

but jordie isn’t a right winger.
 

Kiwiwomble

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So foster has been re signed til after the World Cup. Not really sure what to say about it….

…. ive never been convinced by foster, thought he was an odd choice when he came in as assistant, and certainly wasn’t successful when he was head coach of Waikato. I’m not to know how well he coaches of course, i only see results, and results are about more than one person. So I’ve been open minded that maybe he is alright.

what I have liked is that he has identified the same issue I did in terms of our failings at the World Cup - the opposite coach worked us out, and we didnt adapt. And he identified the same solution I did - that the players need to be able to adapt, to be less programmed in their ways, rather than just having more plans available to pick from. And because I’m always right, foster must be too.

taking this approach takes time, will inevitably result in a steep learning curve for players (especially players coming from more structured teams, highlanders players have no issue), so a lack of results at first, and so in that sense I can forgive an imperfect record.

but despite me always being right, does this approach put too much pressure on the players? World cups are stressful events and most players don’t cope, aren’t able to think under that extra pressure. I think you need a mix of leaving it up to the players and developing alternative plans they can draw from. Have we gone too far with the former? Perhaps we will develop the latter at a later point.

and then there’s Scott Robertson. Very successful, and there’s no evidence to suggest hes anything but the best coach available. But you do have to wonder, given his highly structured approach and the quality of opposition coaches, will his success translate to the next level? I think the important thing would be to get the right assistants. If he was able to get tony brown, I think that combination would work.

then there’s gatland. No.

as for now I think I am ok with foster.

but jordie isn’t a right winger.
I don't have a lot of faith in fozzie...and think he's done little to show he is confident in his vision, players move around positions, play in New positions to what they have been playing in super rugby and he makes several changes from week to week

the impression he gives me is he thinks players are like league players in that all backs can play anywhere in the backline, no specialists and that personal brilliance will outshine proven combinations or a good gamelan, he also likes to get as many of the top players on the field at the same time even if that means out of position, see the personal brilliance comment

none of those give me confidence
 

Umaga's Witness

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I don't have a lot of faith in fozzie...and think he's done little to show he is confident in his vision, players move around positions, play in New positions to what they have been playing in super rugby and he makes several changes from week to week

the impression he gives me is he thinks players are like league players in that all backs can play anywhere in the backline, no specialists and that personal brilliance will outshine proven combinations or a good gamelan, he also likes to get as many of the top players on the field at the same time even if that means out of position, see the personal brilliance comment

none of those give me confidence
Its always been the case that the team will be changed around a bit against easy opposition like fiji and tonga. I think his (not just his) selections have otherwise (against the big teams we’ve played - australia and argentina) been pretty consistent, allowing for changes due to injury.

I’d much rather Joseph and brown, or rennie, but they weren’t options. The only other two options we had were Robertson and gatland. Like I said, I’m not confident Robertson’s overly structured plan will be sufficient at the next level up (remember Mitch hunt saying how it was really hard to adjust coming into the highlanders because the crusaders were so structured that he didn’t know how to play heads up rugby) given we’ve seen when a team puts a lot of focus on the oppositions game plan they are able to stop it ( england against us, Japan against Ireland and Scotland, both of these teams putting years of work into beating their opposition). And when has Robertson ever had to change his game plan, or have his teams ever had to adapt? If they’re in a bind mounga will do something, but that’s not because he has been coached how to, he’s been doing that since his first year of super rugby.
History has also shown if you keep a coach around at the top level after their failings they deliver - Woodward who won at his third World Cup, henry at his second.

I’m not saying foster is the obvious choice, and I’m not totally convinced he is the right choice, but I’m equally not convinced of Robertson or gatland, so I’m ok with the foster decision.
 

Kiwiwomble

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Nah, I feel he chops and changes the backline all the time and people like dmac who have been picked back to back but didn’t play the best

same with selections like bower, generally been pretty average but kept getting picked

his insistence on playing savea at 8 when he plays even better at 7 and Jacobson was great at 8 when given a shot

the general agreement in other groups/forums is people can’t see what he’s aiming for

he seems to think a good play is the same as a gameplan…
 
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Umaga's Witness

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Nah, I feel he chops and changes the backline all the time and people like dmac who have been picked back to back but didn’t play the best

same with selections like bower, generally been pretty average but kept getting picked

his insistence on playing savea at 8 when he plays even better at 7 and Jacobson was great at 8 when given a shot

the general agreement in other groups/forums is people can’t see what he’s aiming for

he seems to think a good play is the same as a gameplan…
I dont know dude, this just sounds like perceptions rather than been fully thought out.

first you say you feel like he chops and changes the backline all the time, then in the same sentence you say dmac should have been changed instead of being stuck with.

three of the tests this year hes stuck with his top backline bar injuries (as far as i can remember), where most coaches would have chopped and changed a whole lot more against the minnows.

as for bower , again he is sticking with his man, and not many would be suggesting an even more inexperienced de groot shoild be starting. And the choice of bower over tuinukuafe he has been clear about too (clear in his game plan), that they want one of the two starting props to be mobile and the other to be a strong scrummager, and same on the bench except for opposite sides). No one else has been available, no moody or tu’ungafasi.

and I agree about savea and jacobson, but it’s clear that he is just trying to have a consistent team, one where Sam cane can come back and slot in rather than making wholesale changes, and he clearly wants to build ardie in the 8 role where he was last year. He is very big in consistency of selections.

in terms of a general consensus being that people don’t see what he is trying to do; that kind of judgement is so subjective that it is far more likely to be caused by biases than anything real, and the general public are all prone to the same biases; hes a small guy who sounds a bit dumb, he isn’t Robertson or rennie or Joseph or brown or any of the people everyone hoped to see.

And he had been clear about his game plan: he doesn’t have one. His game plan is for the players to learn to adapt to what’s happening in front of them. So people aren’t going to see ‘oh look we attack all the time, thats out game plan’, or ‘oh look we kick all the time, thats our game plan’, or ‘oh look we grind away until we get a penalty then kick for the corner and use our driving maul that we spend all our time working on, thats our game plan’, because the game plan is to do the right thing at the right time. You would have seen the highlanders under Joseph experimented with a number of extreme game plans that didn’t work, and it was only when they brought balance and utilized their unique skill sets did they really flourish. Foster has said that our advantage is our ball skills, I think he is rightly recognizing that we might not have the same strength up front as we have had, and that the European players play organised rugby week in week out so we can’t try and be the more organised team, we have to play to our strengths. But to build a team that can win using our skills we need to practice looking for space and looking for options, watching what each other are doing, anticipating, getting confident in each other. This is what he is trying to build.

I have doubts in how good his coaching is, but he seems strong in and committed to his vision (it’s not an arrogant one as it is based on our specific competencies and is attempting to address prior failings), and he is relatively faithful to his top team.
Very happy.
Elaborate?
 

Kiwiwomble

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I dont know dude, this just sounds like perceptions rather than been fully thought out.

first you say you feel like he chops and changes the backline all the time, then in the same sentence you say dmac should have been changed instead of being stuck with.

three of the tests this year hes stuck with his top backline bar injuries (as far as i can remember), where most coaches would have chopped and changed a whole lot more against the minnows.

as for bower , again he is sticking with his man, and not many would be suggesting an even more inexperienced de groot shoild be starting. And the choice of bower over tuinukuafe he has been clear about too (clear in his game plan), that they want one of the two starting props to be mobile and the other to be a strong scrummager, and same on the bench except for opposite sides). No one else has been available, no moody or tu’ungafasi.

and I agree about savea and jacobson, but it’s clear that he is just trying to have a consistent team, one where Sam cane can come back and slot in rather than making wholesale changes, and he clearly wants to build ardie in the 8 role where he was last year. He is very big in consistency of selections.

in terms of a general consensus being that people don’t see what he is trying to do; that kind of judgement is so subjective that it is far more likely to be caused by biases than anything real, and the general public are all prone to the same biases; hes a small guy who sounds a bit dumb, he isn’t Robertson or rennie or Joseph or brown or any of the people everyone hoped to see.

And he had been clear about his game plan: he doesn’t have one. His game plan is for the players to learn to adapt to what’s happening in front of them. So people aren’t going to see ‘oh look we attack all the time, thats out game plan’, or ‘oh look we kick all the time, thats our game plan’, or ‘oh look we grind away until we get a penalty then kick for the corner and use our driving maul that we spend all our time working on, thats our game plan’, because the game plan is to do the right thing at the right time. You would have seen the highlanders under Joseph experimented with a number of extreme game plans that didn’t work, and it was only when they brought balance and utilized their unique skill sets did they really flourish. Foster has said that our advantage is our ball skills, I think he is rightly recognizing that we might not have the same strength up front as we have had, and that the European players play organised rugby week in week out so we can’t try and be the more organised team, we have to play to our strengths. But to build a team that can win using our skills we need to practice looking for space and looking for options, watching what each other are doing, anticipating, getting confident in each other. This is what he is trying to build.

I have doubts in how good his coaching is, but he seems strong in and committed to his vision (it’s not an arrogant one as it is based on our specific competencies and is attempting to address prior failings), and he is relatively faithful to his top team.

Elaborate?
thats what i mean, he sticks with people who are struggling and swaps out people who have done alright

I reminds me of the ilfaited 2 x starting XVs of the late 2000's where we were trying to be able to swap out the whole team from one week to the other

Im not sure what you've been reading but pretty much EVERYONE ive talked to would have played De Groot over Bower (remember im an otago man so generally a big fan), Bower is a journeyman who earned a spot in the training group and maybe as injury cover last year...De Groot is a full on prospect with potentially a long career ahead of him and should have been given more of a shot against the PI's and weakened Aus

his decisions dont seem to be based on actual performances, Last year Akira did more in his game and half than Frizell managed in all the other games...still starts frizell until recently, same with jacobson, same with reece. Reece has been good this year so less of a problem but last year Jorden lit it up....reece would start and do little

as i say...if he has a plan its very hard for lots of us to see
 

Umaga's Witness

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thats what i mean, he sticks with people who are struggling and swaps out people who have done alright

I reminds me of the ilfaited 2 x starting XVs of the late 2000's where we were trying to be able to swap out the whole team from one week to the other

Im not sure what you've been reading but pretty much EVERYONE ive talked to would have played De Groot over Bower (remember im an otago man so generally a big fan), Bower is a journeyman who earned a spot in the training group and maybe as injury cover last year...De Groot is a full on prospect with potentially a long career ahead of him and should have been given more of a shot against the PI's and weakened Aus

his decisions dont seem to be based on actual performances, Last year Akira did more in his game and half than Frizell managed in all the other games...still starts frizell until recently, same with jacobson, same with reece. Reece has been good this year so less of a problem but last year Jorden lit it up....reece would start and do little

as i say...if he has a plan its very hard for lots of us to see
Ok fair enough. But I don’t get this idea that he swaps the team around all the time, because my impression is he swaps the team around less than any coach since mains (there were less injuries in those days too). And you can’t really have it both ways - asking him to pick based on performance and asking him to have stable selections. I guess we are going to disagree on that. Part of me wants to dig up team sheets and research who was injured and therefore changes were forced, to compare his selection policy to previous coaches, but that’s too much effort, so we’ll just have to disagree.

I think people want to see something revolutionary, and so do I, and maybe we would have under a different coach like Joseph or rennie, but not under the other options we had to choose from this year. So I get that, and feel that same disappointment, I’m just looking at the situation in terms of available options, not comparing to unavailable options or great coaches of the past.
 

Kiwiwomble

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Ok fair enough. But I don’t get this idea that he swaps the team around all the time, because my impression is he swaps the team around less than any coach since mains (there were less injuries in those days too). And you can’t really have it both ways - asking him to pick based on performance and asking him to have stable selections. I guess we are going to disagree on that. Part of me wants to dig up team sheets and research who was injured and therefore changes were forced, to compare his selection policy to previous coaches, but that’s too much effort, so we’ll just have to disagree.

I think people want to see something revolutionary, and so do I, and maybe we would have under a different coach like Joseph or rennie, but not under the other options we had to choose from this year. So I get that, and feel that same disappointment, I’m just looking at the situation in terms of available options, not comparing to unavailable options or great coaches of the past.
that would be the first time ive heard someone think that, "even he couldn't tell you his prefered XV" is probably the most common comment ive heard about fozzie since he started, im not going to go and check but i wold say we havent played the same starting XV twice in a row since he took over, sure some of those are injuries, but lots havent been
 

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All blacks squad announced for rugby championship and end of year tour. it’s just everyone that’s been involved so far this year minus Dane Coles who is injured, and minus smith, mounga, and whitelock who will join later because they are expecting babies.

so the only slightly surprising omission is Caleb Clarke.
 

Kiwiwomble

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1629953703114.png

8 probs seems a bit heavy and only BB named at 10 although a few other than can cover
 

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Take it McKenzie is cover at 10 for BB?
 

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