All Blacks 42 v Wales 9 FT. Saturday 19 June 2010 - Dunedin.

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by Darwin, Jun 15, 2010.

  1. Darwin

    Darwin AKA Dingo_Darwin

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    All Blacks team named:
    Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Conrad Smith, Benson Stanley, Joe Rokocoko, Dan Carter, Jimmy Cowan, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw, Victor Vito, Anthony Boric, Brad Thorn, Ben Franks, Keven Mealamu, Owen Franks.
    Reserves: Aled de Malmanche, Tony Woodcock, Sam Whitelock Adam Thomson, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Richard Kahui.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/3813576/All-Blacks-make-one-change-for-Wales

    So only one (injury enforced) change to the starting lineup, with Vito replacing the injured Kaino. Woodcock, Thomson and Kahui come onto the bench to replace Tialata, Vito and Guilford respectively.

    Its great to see the AB's stay with (largely) the same team for two weeks in a row!
     
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  3. ranger

    ranger Senior Member

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    FT score NZ 50 - WAL 3
     
  4. Loane

    Loane Junior Member

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    Still a very good side and I'm now reconsidering my opinion that the ABs were a spent force.
     
  5. Seaton

    Seaton Senior Member

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    Poor Wales, I can see them being done in by the region of 40-13.

    Whenever the AB name their side it is a dark day for the Northern Hemisphere :(
     
  6. Thingimubob

    Thingimubob Senior Member

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    Ach, good All Blacks side again, gonna be interesting to see who Gatland picks for Wales too. Tbh, I don't actually believe we have much of a choice when it comes to the front row, back rowand centres, what with injuries to a hell of a lot of on form Welsh players who would/should start. Very gutted that Warburton is injured, he is the heir to Nugget and win or lose, this tour was the perfect opportunity for him to show what he can do and gain some experience. Anyway my team:

    15. Lee Byrne 14. Leigh Halfpenny 13. Andrew Bishop 12. Jamie Roberts 11. Tom Prydie 10. Stephen Jones/Dan Biggar 9. Mike Phillips 8. Ryan Jones 7. Gavin Thomas 6. Jonathan Thomas 5. Alun-Wyn Jones 4. Bradley Davies 3. Adam Jones 2. Matthew Rees 1. Paul James (would prefer Yapp)
    Bench: Ken Owens, John Yapp, Deiniol Jones, Rob McCusker, Richie Rees, Dan Biggar/Stephen Jones, Jon Davies/Will Harries?

    Wasn't sure between Stephen Jones and Biggar. I don't think SJ played that badly overall against South Africa, just his tactical kicking wasn't great and one dodgy kick led to their first try. Maybe it's time Dan Biggar is given a run out against a world class side, he's been one of the form 10s in Europe and could add a bit of freshness to a Welsh game plan thats been criticised as being 'too predtictable'.

    Gonna try to compare my team to the All Blacks team:
    Back Three: Interesting battle, Dagg is class, but it is only his 2nd test, Byrne is more experienced and can be world class, but his form is very shaky atm. Halpenny has found some form the 6 Nations onwards, but didn't do much vs SA, I reckon it was just an off game though/didn;t get the chance. Don;t know loads about Jane, I know he's solid in defence and can score tries, good under the high ball too I think. Rokococo looked good in the Super 14, nice to see him getting his form back. Prydie, like Dagg, looks like a very class prospect but is very young! Only his 3rd test, will have to see if he can impress again.

    Centres: Roberts and Smith are both world class players, though Roberts has a habit of getting kept quiet by clever teams. Bishop is one of teh form players in Wales imo, he's been running suberb lines all season, really staked a claim on the O's centre shirt, would def prefer Hook though. Dont know much about Benson Stanley, but he's been picked by the All Blacks, can't see him being utter crap! Am worried that the Welsh midfield will lack pace and creativity without Hook though.

    Halfbacks. Dan Carter is, well, Dan Carter! From what I saw he didn't set the world alight in the S14, but like I said, he's Carter! He's world class. Not much else to say about the guy really :p Not Cowans biggest fan, but sounds liek he had a good game v Ireland last week. Already touched on the Welsh 10s above. Phillips is superb, thought he was class vs SA (bar one or two dodgy passes) hopefully he can try and keep the All Blacks defence honest with his runs round the fringes.

    Back Row: NZ have a clear advantage here tbh. Ryan Jones looked a little better for part of the game v SA, but his form is very off atm. A lot of people are wondering if he's the right man to captain Wales right now though - maybe it's affecting his form. Am hoping Gavin Thomas will start, he's been in cracking form for the Dragons! He's no Richie McCaw though, whoever is picked at 7 for Wales is gonna struggle against him, Read, McCaw and Vito, who're all superb imo :/ Jon Thomas is shite, but we have no one else. 'Nuff said.

    Second Rows: Can't say the All Black locks have ever made me stand up and say 'Wow!!!' but they're obviosuly a central part to the AB side, and do their job well. Our lineout got picked apart by Matfield last time, don't rate the AB line out as high as the Springbok one, but Wales need to make sure they win their own bloody throws! Bradley Davies is on fire with his carries atm though! AW Jones made a big difference when he came on v SA too.

    Front Rows: Can't see either side having a massive advantage, Gethin Jenkins is a huge loss for Wales though :/ Paul James is a competant scrummager, but nowhere near as good in the loose. Adam Jones didn;t look paticiular comfortable later in the game vs SA, though was good early on. Don;t know loads about the Franks brothers, obviously Mealamu is an experienced hooker and he'll do the job for them.

    EDIT: Forgot my prediction! All Blacks will prob whoop us, the breakdown is just gonna be a disaster with us unless our back rown pull their bloody finger out! Gonna be hard without Warburton too. Dunno if it'll be as bad as Ranger says, I think (ok hope :p) the days of 50 - 3 hammering to the Tri Nations are over for now for Wales. Can't see Wales scoring only 3 points though - we do know how to score plenty of tries, and we like to lose excitingly. Ireland scored 4 last week with only 14 men for most of the match - 13 for 10 mins! If that's all down to the AB dropping off because they were so far ahead (personally I dont think that explains it all) then surely wont they do it vs Wales if they rack up 50? :p
    Prediction: AB 42 - 25 Wales (optmistic I know...)
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2010
  7. Jake Heke

    Jake Heke Senior Member

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    So Zac Guilford didn't make the team? A bit harsh, imo.
     
  8. ranger

    ranger Senior Member

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    I was just going on past results. Wales don't play in NZ very often so people seem to forget, but the last three homes games NZ played against Wales ended 52-3, 54-9, and 55-3.
    Also, in the last 5 years of games against Wales in Cardiff, they have only managed 1 try.

    I think that a lot of the early season rust was coughed up during the last game and the ABs should really start clicking. The holes that NZ started leaving against Ireland wont necessarily be there anymore after another week training together.

    I predict a slaughter.

    Also, If you haven't heard alot about Cory Jane, then you're in for a bit of a shock. He is by far and away the best outside back in NZ. Hes world class and would be among the top Fullbacks/Wings in the world based on his last few years. Beats the first defender every time he touches the ball, he runs great angles and has an insane handoff for a little guy
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2010
  9. wjd23104

    wjd23104 Member

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    If Carter plays as well as he did against a 14 man Ireland, the All Blacks will win comfortably but saying that Wales have gone close lately and seem to really get fired up for games against NZ.
     
  10. Hurricane Nate

    Hurricane Nate Senior Member

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    I just hope Wales keep all 15 players on the field and atleast try make a game of it. AB's will win without too much difficulty, biggest threat to them would be Dunedin's lovely weather. That will decide how bigger spanking Wales will get.
     
  11. TRF C A Iversen

    TRF C A Iversen Rugby Gaming Nut

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    Well if last week is any form guide, we of New Zealand will win, who knows the amount but probably by more than 5pts.

    What is certain is that Richie McCaw will be a great man, who all the rugby world respects (insert laughter here) and an amazing player, but he will cheat all day, live the whole day long over the off-side line to the point where it's not ideal, but understandable if he gets a good off the ball "shoeing".

    Somehow him being referred to on TRF afterwards as such a filthy cheat who cheats at every ruck of his cheating, cheat, cheat life will not be a signal of people trying to rob him of any of his achievements or status as being a world class player, because we all know that players who are regarded as all day cheats are really dearly loved and deeply respected.

    Then some members of the forum will (with a lot of class)start referring back a long time ago to Tana Umaga's career as being a clear example of a "consistent thug" in action (presumably with the idea that he also deserves a good "shoeing". The idea for this will come from a repeated mantra of "Brian O'Driscoll......Brian O'Driscoll.......Brian O'Driscoll". It will be most dignified.

    What will be the purpose of these people bringing things like this up? Well we all know the All Blacks will not be the better side, even if they win. They are thugs and cheats and people who (playing rugby the way they do) only win due to having the edge in the guise of illegal play and infringement. Skill be damned, these guys have been robbing sides like Ireland and Wales for decades and are the real disgrace of rugby.

    The fans of rugby who call attention to these things are all true gentlemen and will rightfully have back at the NZ fans with the "fact" that New Zealand fans are WUM's too. There are so many of them on the forum. I just can't remember what they've been winding up NH members about right at the moment.

    Having one or two arrogant fans like Iron Mike (whom the other NZ posters have been quick to dismiss), is the exact same thing as members and moderators alike joining in from near and far to kick New Zealand in the guts and with right on their side "understand" how a guy could want to physically attack New Zealand rugby players. After all, they deserve it. All proven cheats deserve a good "shoeing" and the only cheats in the world are from NZ.
     
  12. TRF_nickdnz

    TRF_nickdnz Super Moderator

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    Wait...

    No.

    Hold on...

    Was there a slight undertone of...

    anger in that last post?

    On a serious note, I did get angry (something which despite many of my posts, is rare on this forum), about the reactions of some members.

    It is also important to remember however, that a few NH posters, especially at the start of the thread, did condem Heaslip's actions.
    What was a bit more dissapointing was that there were a few members who were new, that made some pretty stupid and offensive remarks about NZ players, such as Umaga and McCaw, none of which could be backed up by anything more than name calling, and then 1 or 2 respected members of the forum, who should be leading by example, rewarded such comments with back up.
     
  13. TRF_Olyy

    TRF_Olyy English Arrogance

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    I can't see anything other that an AB win, with them putting a fair few tries past Wales.
    Depending on how Wales play (they can blow hot and cold) will depend on how many points they get. I can imagine them getting two tries and a couple of penalties

    My prediction:

    New Zealand 58 - 16 Wales
     
  14. Jer1cho

    Jer1cho Senior Member

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    Agreed. Jane is in my opinion the best 15 in the world, even though he plays other positions regularly. He is one of those rare gems thats just good at every aspect of his play.

    On the MaCaw thing, why do people view him as a cheat? Is it a NH thing? Myself, nor any other South African fan i know has ever referred to him as a cheat, or even thought of him in the sense. I have seen him play over 100 matches, and not once have i ever regarded him as a cheat.

    Anyway, how is it that we always get HAMMERED on the forums regarding our **** poor defense, when scores like these are being predicted, and we almost put 50 past France? Did something change?
     
  15. ranger

    ranger Senior Member

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    The match-up i'm looking forward to the most is Jaime Roberts vs Benson Stanley.

    Roberts is a beast and looks to me to be the hardest runner in the NH, hes a battering ram and does a great job of it.

    Whereas Benson Stanley looks to be among the hardest hitters in the SH (Evidence: Item 1, Item 2, Item 3.)

    Irresistible force meets Immovable object. I predict equal parts carnage and awesome.
     
  16. Thingimubob

    Thingimubob Senior Member

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    I'm guessing you're on about BargoedBoy's comment about McCaw 'deserved to get kneed' (something daft like that?). I'd like to speak on behalf of the Welsh community here and TRF, his views do not cover all of our views, even if McCaw is a cheating scumbag :D...
    ...
    ...
    ...
    Yes I am joking...

    Jer1cho, personally I believe McCaw does "cheat", but as I've said many a time in many a thread, it's something that flankers do. By 'cheating' I don;t mean horrific rule breaking like contantly stamping or punching (obviosuly we know that) or even cynical play in general, I mean it as in he knows how to live on the edge of the law and get away with things under the refs nose. It's all part of the game, and I don;t have a problem with it personally. Martyn Williams is similar, he, like McCaw, knows the rules inside out, and how to exploit them. All I have to say is McCaw is the best at it, he knows how to do it, and fair play to the guy for it! Though he work ethic round the park is superb, so that helps him be the best too.

    With Cory Jane, he has looked good in what Super 14 highlights I've seen, just the guy is very unlucky with some of the YouTube clips he's ended up taking the limelight in :p I mean there's one where he gets bowled over by a punted ball to the face, another where he managed to get punched up by Doug Howlett and to top it off he gets knocked out in spectacular fashion by a Fijian... :p not great luck there at all! I remember him getting chased down by Geth Jenkins last time Wales played New Zealand :D was great to see. No reflection on Jane as a player, but it's brilliant to see that Gethin Jenkins fitness and work ethic lets him chase down a very highly rated All Black winger/fullback. :p good old melon.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2010
  17. TRF C A Iversen

    TRF C A Iversen Rugby Gaming Nut

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    Yesterday it was basically annoyance, today it's sarcasm. I just (rightly or wrongly) believe that if anyone has to state that they can "understand" people's reasons for off-the-ball play it really shouldn't be our moderating team. That just says "if it's alright for them, then surely it's alright for the members".

    I personally must say that many NH posters behaved with dignity and respect for rugby surrounding Heaslip's wrong-doing and just moved on. I myself think the guy had a rush of blood and did something which he surely himself would know was the wrong thing to do. Who hasn't done something wrong? It's just when people tacitly justify it that blows my mind. I'd be the first guy wanting a red-card for an All Black in the same situation.

    So, please understand any of you good keen Welsh or Irish members, my earlier post probably relates to very few of you.
     
  18. TRF C A Iversen

    TRF C A Iversen Rugby Gaming Nut

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    There's a way to explain it without looking like an ass, well done! :)

    Mind you I can also see Jer1cho's point too. I'm sure the guy must infringe, but if he's the best in the world then it's not by streets. There are other flankers who have penalties blown at them too. If there are 20 examples per game, as some would have you believe, then by now in his career, there must be 5 You Tube clips showing examples. Nobody can find even 1!

    According to one of our "respected" members he "lives" on the oppositions side of the off-side line. "Lives" is a very strong description and indicates that the man cheats all day. That totally says that our international captain is a complete and relentless cheat. To say that it is below the belt is as obvious as any statement has been on the subject.
     
  19. Haysie

    Haysie Senior Member

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  20. Thingimubob

    Thingimubob Senior Member

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    Haha thanks :p I've said something similar a few times when this crops up, which it does a hell of a lot, almost as much as the NH vs SH debate... I'm glad that my ability to keep ass-ness to a minimum is finally getting some recognition :L

    Good point about the YouTube clips though, Maybe he's just so subtle at it that nobody notices anymore... Of course I've seen him yellowed before for various ruck infringements, but that's another thing that's normal for a flanker too. Nuggets had a fair few in his time.
     
  21. TRF C A Iversen

    TRF C A Iversen Rugby Gaming Nut

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    Thats about the score of it. You can't teach common sense online.




    To Thingimubob, your probably right that he is able to be subtle and get away with it, but subtle is light years from the labels he's had. I'd just expect people to temper the level of their vitriol towards him with some form of balance, but unfortunately there is no such thing as a measured response from internet haters.

    If he isn't my a country mile the worlds most maligned player on TRF, then who is?
     
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