All Blacks V Wallabies, Hong Kong, October 30th

[madflyhalf]

Among a lot of OZ players that I love, Barnes even if he's quite off form, Adam Ashley-Cooper for his hardness in contact and high-ball... I want to talk about Beale!
Kurtley Beale is improving game after game, his learning curve is impressive: in June I wouldn't credit him as FB, as AAC is my favourite, but with no 13 and AAC switched there, he became a steady point for Australia backline.
And he is incredibly fast and quick!!

Look:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89J9fE5F_uo#t=5m58s

His way to run reminds me Michael Johnson: http://www.youtube.com /watch?v=K2Ie7CUGrWU

 

[Gavin]

Cooper's an arsehole. He wants to play league.. so good on him. He can go join his mate Lote Tuquiri, another dumb-fvck with a single figure IQ.

That is a stupid remark, completely uncalled for. How can he be an arsehole when the reason he stay in union was because of his friends, namely O'Connor and Beale. He didn't stay for money. Also he is a quality player so why would you want him to move to league - surely keeping all the great players in union will make this sport even greater.

 

[smartcooky]

That is a stupid remark, completely uncalled for. How can he be an arsehole when the reason he stay in union was because of his friends, namely O'Connor and Beale. He didn't stay for money. Also he is a quality player so why would you want him to move to league - surely keeping all the great players in union will make this sport even greater.

I'll tell you what Gavin. Why don't you READ the post you are quoting before making inane comments about it.

I didn't say I WANT him to go to League, I said if he wants to go, let him. Effectively, that means I don't really give a fvck.

Cooper is a douche bag.... running from some distance away to deliver a cheap shot to an opponent has no place in our game.

In any case, he ought to be in jail right now for burglary. If he was anyone else other than a sports star, he probably would be. Drunkenness and "I didn't know what I was doing" is not an excuse for committing a criminal offence.

 

[Gavin]

I'll tell you what Gavin. Why don't you READ the post you are quoting before making inane comments about it.

I didn't say I WANT him to go to League, I said if he wants to go, let him. Effectively, that means I don't really give a fvck.

Cooper is a douche bag.... running from some distance away to deliver a cheap shot to an opponent has no place in our game.

In any case, he ought to be in jail right now for burglary. If he was anyone else other than a sports star, he probably would be. Drunkenness and "I didn't know what I was doing" is not an excuse for committing a criminal offence.

Cooper was found not guilty for burglary, so how can you say he should be in jail? I made a mistake saying that you wanted him to go to League, but you did state "He wants to play league" and surely if that was true he would not have signed again with Australia. Union needs to keep all the players it can, so we should all want our players to stay and not move to League for the better of the game.

 

[smartcooky]

Cooper was found not guilty for burglary

No he wasn't. It never went to trial as the charges were dropped. Very suspicious!

 

[Gavin]

No he wasn't. It never went to trial as the charges were dropped. Very suspicious!

Ever heard of being innocent until proven guilty? Or maybe it is the fact that he is Australian which makes you think like this. I'm sure if it was an All Black you'd say he was innocent as the charges were dropped.

 

[smartcooky]

Ever heard of being innocent until proven guilty? Or maybe it is the fact that he is Australian which makes you think like this. I'm sure if it was an All Black you'd say he was innocent as the charges were dropped.

If you knew me at all, you would know that is completely untrue

Anyway, I can't be bothered debating this with you. Pointless

 

[Dizzy]

I thought you liked Sonny Bill Williams?

I do, and honestly Nick I think the guy deserves it. Sonny is a very unselfish player, he isn't big headed and has not once since he has returned to New Zealand made any statements which make you think, "that guys a jerk he's doing it for the money". I mean, he doesn't even consider himself an All Black yet until he gets on the field. When I heard SBW was coming to NZ in the hunt for an All Black jersey I was against him 100%. He hasn't officially earned the jersey yet and doesn't show any signs of being a pest and pushing for a spot in the side yet. As one of his critics I can honestly say he does deserve the All Black jersey. His form during the ITM Cup imo is a good indication of that. Some people say he was so-so and never did anything particularly spectacular but I say he was consistent didn't make any crucial cough ups or much errors at all of the handful of games he had for Canterbury he managed to score something like 5 or 6 tries[not too sure exactly]. I think Guildford scored the most tries in an entire season with 13 last year. At times his positional play on defense needed a bit of work but not too bad and he improved each week. No one in the world could match his ability to offload, even the King himself couldn't touch Sonny Bill in that sense.
With the help of the All Black camp and the direction our coaches will provide for him I see SBW becoming a force to be reckoned with.

Ever heard of being innocent until proven guilty? Or maybe it is the fact that he is Australian which makes you think like this. I'm sure if it was an All Black you'd say he was innocent as the charges were dropped.

Actually he's a Kiwi but he moved to Aussie and made Australian rep sides which is why he can't become an All Black[and the fact that he wouldn't get passed DC]

 

[smartcooky]

I see SBW becoming a force to be wreckoned with.

Was that an accidental spelling mistake, or a deliberate one?

 

[Dizzy]

Lol accidental... You'll find I'm constantly editting my posts after re-reading them and they contain either spelling mistakes or poor sentence structure...

 

[nickdnz]

Haha, Dizzy. It was a joke rather than a dig. The fact that saying Donald shouldn't be in the All Blacks after only several good performances in the ITM Cup, rings of irony. Either way, my gripe is against the NZRU. I still believe they shouldn't have signed him, however good SBW for trying to get something he wants, I just hope that it's a long term commitment, rather than a two year stint.

I think one of the reasons Smartcookie doesn't like Cooper, is a reason I fully understand, and it pretty relevant in New Zealand at the moment. Forgetting his burglary incident, which is suspicious at best, there are annoying things about Cooper. His cheap shot, was poor sportsmanship, regardless of any past incidents. If Daniel Carter ran 20 meters out of his way, to hit a player on the ground, I'd admit it was poor sportsmanship. The thing about League, is the relevant thing in New Zealand. Quade Cooper has been put into an international enviroment, given a lot of training and responsibility, and is now a pivitol member of the Wallabies, and i think most will admit he's a talented player. But when you're in the position, using that leverage to say "Not sure if i want to play union or league, maybe a pay rise well persuade me to sign on for another (world cup) year, is an attitude that I really dislike. To say he stayed on "because of friends" is a joke. He is now getting paid more, and after the RWC, he may make another move to league. The attitude of "I've got something you want, what are you willing to give me", always comes off as a poor attitude to me. I'm not saying he's the only person guilty of it, it is professional sports after all, it's just something that lowers my opinion of someone, because you know there'd be a thousand people who would trade their position for his, and do it for free.

 

[Haysie]

If you knew me at all, you would know that is completely untrue

Anyway, I can't be bothered debating this with you. Pointless

Cook, while I can accept that you are a very learned scholar of the great game that is rugby, in this particular circumstance you (and the majority of the population) know very little about what has actually transpired. Is it worth slandering a public figure when you don't truly know the facts?
I could throw words like "ignorant" and "childish" around, because I know that you're not by any stretch of the imagination normally like that.

Otherwise, I thought it was the match was a fantastic spectacle and exactly what we need to bring to the world outside of the regular top-tier nations.

 

[Shaggy]

It's a bit rich all you Kiwis getting your noses out of joint about Cooper. Anybody recall the Commonwealth Games 7s final? And let's face it, Richie is a pretty dirty player on the field, he probably deserved it. Kicking Pocock earlier in the match is a testament to that.

So you think if Cooper was a Kiwi the issue would not have the same Precedence then

 

[RoosTah]

To say he stayed on "because of friends" is a joke. He is now getting paid more, and after the RWC, he may make another move to league. The attitude of "I've got something you want, what are you willing to give me", always comes off as a poor attitude to me. I'm not saying he's the only person guilty of it, it is professional sports after all, it's just something that lowers my opinion of someone, because you know there'd be a thousand people who would trade their position for his, and do it for free.

You see, I just can't begrudge players for behaving that way... I actually agree with you that he's a dick, but in terms of using the League thing to get more money I don't really have a problem with it. I've been around long enough to see clubs really screw otherwise loyal and reliable players, just so they could make room for some freak or money spinner. So I actually think that sports organisations as a whole have bred this attitude and if they want to get upset at someone then they have only to look into a mirror. The ARU is far from blameless here - just look at the number of talented people that were never given a shot so they could fork out millions for a dud like Sailor. You're only going to be playing for a very short stint in terms of your whole life, so if you don't have a good career waiting for you at the end, you better make your time at the top level worth it.
I hate to say it, but it's another game in of itself and you have to play it for your own good.

 

[Larksea]

Sup all,

Must admit I only saw the 2nd half of the game, shame about the loss. I think the Aussie backs outside backs in particular were super impressive in that last 30min or so Just seemed like they wanted to win more and who could blame them. I think the bench was an issue. Mathewson, Elliot, Donald & Toeava either not being involved in the trinations at all or only having very limited involvement in mathewsons part. Each game in the tri nations against Aussie in particular got tougher and faster every week and that game was the most intense game I've seen in a long time. I know Elliot didn't take the field but that's the point really I think we needed the freash legs.

What I saw of Cowan looked good! I think he's improved his clearance, he looked more urgent in clearing the ball. He made a great tackle to save a try. Hope he keeps it up.

Obviously Donald's copped a lot of flack. Maybe he did have a chance to win the game with that kick he missed but I think it's unfair to blame him for the result, I didn't see the first half but I heard Carter Missed his first two kicks and Aussie Missed their first two kicks. I would have expected Donald to get that, he's been kicking ~97% in ITM cup - the kick just looked like it curved the wrong way, if it had gone with his natural curve it would have gone over, gutted he didnt' get it though.

When he didn't hit touch initially I was pretty missed off then I saw the clock and there was a lot of time left of time left. Given that if he did hit a long touch Aussie would have had an easy quick throw in. make sure of a set lineout it would have to have been kicked out a lot closer and there was lots of time for an Aussie lineout in good field position. So in the end a long kick wasn't a bad call - I think actually the best option may have been to run it and try and hold posession till the hooter but there weren't many forwards around the ruck to support the halfback.

Also note Donald's kick would have been a good one if Toeava didn't hash the tackle, But I dont blame him for the loss either.

Same reason I dont blame Brad Thron who came out of the line to make a spot tackle in that last 20min missed the tackle and left a big gap Aussie exploited to gain great field position.

Or Mills + others for letting O'Connor over for his try. Or any number of mistakes close to the end that could have impacted the result of that game.

Hell Quade cooper, in that last 20min Donald was on the field he missed 3 tackles and botched 2-3 kicks, he was like a revolving door for Nonu to run through. Lucky for Australia it's a 15 man game.

Sucks the 2010 AB's lost a game, but at least it was a "dead rubber" - that and they now have a grand slam to nail to get over the loss. And I hope for the sake of NZ rugby Donald finds his mojo and makes a good showing. Outside of the missed kick I and the high tackle he got away with I was pretty happy with the rest of his game, passing was good, one run where he dam near broke the line and his defence was good as always.

 

[Sam Owen]

Hey Larky, well at least now you know Donald aint up there on the international scene. He's a good player and has been for awhile but when it comes to wearing the AB jumper he's not the same player. I hope he does get a chance to redeem himself he deserves it because he was doing well in the ITM but many of us here on TRF knew he'd struggle in the test arena, I was one of them but I hope he can prove me wrong because he's better than some people make him out to be.

The 'get rid of Stephen Donald mania' is everywhere. Radio, T.V, the papers, Rugby experts and coaches all demanding he goes. He's at the bottom right now as far as peoples champ so theres only one way to go for Stephen and thats up. He's gotta make a convincing comeback not saying he goes out and makes constant line breaks but do his job well, you know realistic stuff.

 

[ranger]

Haha, Dizzy. It was a joke rather than a dig. The fact that saying Donald shouldn't be in the All Blacks after only several good performances in the ITM Cup, rings of irony. Either way, my gripe is against the NZRU. I still believe they shouldn't have signed him, however good SBW for trying to get something he wants, I just hope that it's a long term commitment, rather than a two year stint.

I think one of the reasons Smartcookie doesn't like Cooper, is a reason I fully understand, and it pretty relevant in New Zealand at the moment. Forgetting his burglary incident, which is suspicious at best, there are annoying things about Cooper. His cheap shot, was poor sportsmanship, regardless of any past incidents. If Daniel Carter ran 20 meters out of his way, to hit a player on the ground, I'd admit it was poor sportsmanship. The thing about League, is the relevant thing in New Zealand. Quade Cooper has been put into an international enviroment, given a lot of training and responsibility, and is now a pivitol member of the Wallabies, and i think most will admit he's a talented player. But when you're in the position, using that leverage to say "Not sure if i want to play union or league, maybe a pay rise well persuade me to sign on for another (world cup) year, is an attitude that I really dislike. To say he stayed on "because of friends" is a joke. He is now getting paid more, and after the RWC, he may make another move to league. The attitude of "I've got something you want, what are you willing to give me", always comes off as a poor attitude to me. I'm not saying he's the only person guilty of it, it is professional sports after all, it's just something that lowers my opinion of someone, because you know there'd be a thousand people who would trade their position for his, and do it for free.

To be fair, he is far from the only professional footballer to say they are going overseas/to rugby league/to football (Cipriani)/to the NFL (Willie Mason..) right when their contract is up for renegotiation.
Pretty much every player has pulled that trick, and good on them. Professional sports careers don't last long, if they can milk more money then good on them. Its unfair to single Cooper out for that when everyone does it.

 

[nickdnz]

To be fair, he is far from the only professional footballer to say they are going overseas/to rugby league/to football (Cipriani)/to the NFL (Willie Mason..) right when their contract is up for renegotiation.
Pretty much every player has pulled that trick, and good on them. Professional sports careers don't last long, if they can milk more money then good on them. Its unfair to single Cooper out for that when everyone does it.

I get what you mean, and I didn't single out Cooper -

I'm not saying he's the only person guilty of it, it is professional sports after all, it's just something that lowers my opinion of someone, because you know there'd be a thousand people who would trade their position for his, and do it for free.

But I stand by it. Yes it is professional sports, and a rugby union career can ony last a certain amount of time, but I think when you are doing something that most people can only dream of, it always seems a little disloyal, to try and pump as much money out of it as you can. I can't see Carter, McCaw or Mealamu saying "I'm interested in league, how much are you willing to pay to stop me?". I'm of the opinion, that when you make public statements, of "is this where I really want to be?", then it obviously isn't.

 

[smartcooky]

Cook, while I can accept that you are a very learned scholar of the great game that is rugby, in this particular circumstance you (and the majority of the population) know very little about what has actually transpired. Is it worth slandering a public figure when you don't truly know the facts?
I could throw words like "ignorant" and "childish" around, because I know that you're not by any stretch of the imagination normally like that.

Like I said.....

I can't be bothered debating this with you. Pointless

 

[Charles]

Funny how lots kiwis are going postal/petty on this thread because of one loss...I've known you a more civil poster Cooky...

Makes you happy the AB don't lose often aye...