An open letter to World Rugby.

[gamine]

Honestly, the reason people are dismissive of this complaint is that for very good reasons up until recently the TMO wasn't allowed to review forward passes because of the difficulty of getting non-distortive camera angles and taking into account motion. But to put it simply, when ruling on whether a pass is forward, the most important thing isn't actually the place the ball ends up, but rather the direction of the players hand motion as he passes it.

Go back and watch the footage of Mitchell's try again and it's blatantly obvious he's passing the ball backward out of the hands. The touch judge was right in line and saw that clear as day, which is why idiots like Woodward were the only ones bleeting about it.

Thanks. Could you send me a link?

 

[Fard]

Thank you for your civil comments.

I would say, however, I have just watched some footage of tries being scored, and the ball is certainly not always caught in front of the person passing the ball.

I appreciate that passing with the hands facing forward is a good indication of a forward pass, but what do you do when the passer and receiver are running parallel to one another, the ball is flicked sideways and you cannot see in which direction the hands are facing, is this a forward pass?

I would appreciate your opinion.

gamine, this is where the experience of the ref and his assistants comes in. No you are right that not all balls go back but I say again that if you are running at speed and the ball is passed backwards out of the hand sideways then the ball will always travel forward. Other comment here have looked at the relative position of players and camera angles etc. All to complicated for me. I am now a retired Ref but with around 20 years experience, up including premier rugby. No ref will get it right every time in any sport. I am not a fan of the TMO getting more power than they have today as I think we loose something in this great game of ours RUGBY. Mini league in Australia is a good example where they review everything and still get it wrong. ***** all you like about the refs but without these people you won't have a game to watch. We have tough skin and have to, but we all have one thing in common at that is the love of the game. NB I also played the game all be it at a lower level.

 

[OverGore]

gamine is the feminine form of gamin, which, in French, means a playful waif or street urchin.

thx so much for teachin me french lol, so, i repeat, and this isnt a question or a suggestion.
Gamine = female kid, or stupid woman.
Gamin is is used to describe a child in its 5 to 8 yo.
A gamine , is mostly used to describe a childish stupid brainless woman.
Keep ur lessons of both physics and french for ur husband.

i forgot lol, what you call a street urchin, is a "gavroche". Wich has no comon sense at all with gamin. Your google dictionary sucks.

 

[RoosTah]

Thanks. Could you send me a link?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YuYpMLcUMk go to 3:08 in the clip and watch his arms and hands. I saw another video somewhere else that showed it from over head and it's even clearer there, but I can't find it now.

 

[gamine]

gamine, this is where the experience of the ref and his assistants comes in. No you are right that not all balls go back but I say again that if you are running at speed and the ball is passed backwards out of the hand sideways then the ball will always travel forward. Other comment here have looked at the relative position of players and camera angles etc. All to complicated for me. I am now a retired Ref but with around 20 years experience, up including premier rugby. No ref will get it right every time in any sport. I am not a fan of the TMO getting more power than they have today as I think we loose something in this great game of ours RUGBY. Mini league in Australia is a good example where they review everything and still get it wrong. ***** all you like about the refs but without these people you won't have a game to watch. We have tough skin and have to, but we all have one thing in common at that is the love of the game. NB I also played the game all be it at a lower level.

Many thanks for your kind response, I accept your what you say without reserve . I don't for one minute blame the referees for the current situation in rugby, I have been a netball umpire in my time, so I know what a difficult job a referee has!

My beef is with those who run the game, and who, since it became a professional game, strive to make it more 'entertaining' in order to draw in those who might find the traditional game a trifle arcane! In my opinion, many of these 'improvements have made the game almost impossible to referee, and lead to the sort of arguments about what is and what isn't fair play, and so many hairline decisions for the ref to make that he is on a loser whatever he does.

Here's hoping for a great game on Saturday,

Best wishes

gamine

 

[gamine]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YuYpMLcUMk go to 3:08 in the clip and watch his arms and hands. I saw another video somewhere else that showed it from over head and it's even clearer there, but I can't find it now.

Thank you.

I must say, I have even more sympathy for the refs now, as I think it's really difficult to see with any degree of accuracy in which direction the arms and hands are facing!

Oh well, let's just stick with the old rugby maxim that the ref is always right, even if he is wrong!

Enjoy the final, hope it's a great game.

Best wishes

 

[LukeFitzgerald]

Yeah the refereeing has been appalling for the most part. Owens is a decent enough ref, but not as amazing as most people believe him to be. It's that all the other referees are so poor that he appears to be better than what he is.
Garces made some poor calls in the Ireland game ie the red card decision and let the breakdown be a free for all.
Joubert..........
Barnes is totally inept.
Clancey and Lacey shouldn't be allowed to ref a Pro12 game, never mind in the RWC.
I don't know how you can increase the standard of refereeing be it an increase in pay, better training courses etc etc. I genuinely have no idea. However, World Rugby must act on it as games are being completely ruined by reprehensible refereeing.

 

[RugbyTackle91]

Yeah the refereeing has been appalling for the most part. Owens is a decent enough ref, but not as amazing as most people believe him to be. It's that all the other referees are so poor that he appears to be better than what he is.
Garces made some poor calls in the Ireland game ie the red card decision and let the breakdown be a free for all.
Joubert..........
Barnes is totally inept.
I don't know how you can increase the standard of refereeing be it an increase in pay, better training courses etc etc. I genuinely have no idea. However, World Rugby must act on it as games are being completely ruined by reprehensible refereeing.

One thing that bugs me about the TMO and decisions being reversed because of foul play etc is the amount of the 80 minute game time that is eaten into in the period of play that gets disregarded once a decision is reversed. For example the game will carry on for 2 minutes and then go back down the pitch for a decision the TMO picks up on but the clock will stay the same which means that time of the game counted for nothing but added to the clock. I don't know if anyone else picked up on this..

 

[gamine]

Of course, lets forget about the players who drop the ball, throw forward passes, miss tackles, throw crooked into lineouts, knock the ball on, collapse scrums, mauls and rucks, enter tackle zones, rucks and mauls illegally, play opponents in the air or without the ball, don't support their own weight, don't roll away and don't release the ball and the tackled player and commit acts of dangerous or foul play!

Their actions have no bearing on the results of matches, its all the referee's fault

Is missing a tackle illegal?

 

[gamine]

thx so much for teachin me french lol, so, i repeat, and this isnt a question or a suggestion.
Gamine = female kid, or stupid woman.
Gamin is is used to describe a child in its 5 to 8 yo.
A gamine , is mostly used to describe a childish stupid brainless woman.
Keep ur lessons of both physics and french for ur husband.

i forgot lol, what you call a street urchin, is a "gavroche". Wich has no comon sense at all with gamin. Your google dictionary sucks.

Idiot: means the same in French and English

 

[austingtir]

One thing that bugs me about the TMO and decisions being reversed because of foul play etc is the amount of the 80 minute game time that is eaten into in the period of play that gets disregarded once a decision is reversed. For example the game will carry on for 2 minutes and then go back down the pitch for a decision the TMO picks up on but the clock will stay the same which means that time of the game counted for nothing but added to the clock. I don't know if anyone else picked up on this..

Yep I cant stand that part of it. What gets me is how PC the rulings have gone. Alot of them are trying to go to the letter of the law which is clearly ridiculous. The argentine sinbinning vs Australia is a prime example. Its just another nothing call that should never of happened.

It doesnt surprise me that we have had the most PC world cup ever in the most PC country ever!

I cant wait for Barnes to put his 2cents in from the sideline in the WC final in a few hours.:vomit:

 

[OverGore]

Idiot: means the same in French and English

cool u learned one word, happy for you, remeber it well, u ll need it when someone calls you.
Now, please stop ur bs around, u keep posting bs, blablating over dead subjects u could find answers in wikipedia.
U give french lessons to a french person, u fail dramaticaly, and u insist?
What do you expect, u are stupid beyond reason, and you prove it each day a little more.
U are pathetic.
Here some others words u need to learn in case u travel in france, cos u ll hear them a lot.
Retarded --- débile
Useless--- inutile
Stupid---Stupide (same one with an extra e , u might remeber this one better).

 

[Cliffyboy]

Idiot: means the same in French and English

Gamine, we don't all feel the same way on this forum - I've been a member for around three years but, apart from one or two earlier posts, have only relatively recently started posting more regularly. I soon picked up that there's a little cliquey group that thinks it's on the money when it comes to discussing all things rugby, and you have come in for some really uncalled for treatment, in my view. I always judge people who post on forums on whether they would be prepared to say face to face to a person what they post on that forum, such as this, for example. Say no more, eh?

Don't let it get you down or stop you from posting.

I like New Zealanders generally - last year with my darling wife, we went to New Zealand - my first visit - and they are a likeable and friendly people, and it is a beautiful country.

But if you count the posts that have been consistently decrying the play-off for third and fourth as a nothing match, you see what arrogance can breed. Being English, and so disappointed in our overall performance, I'd have loved us to have made that playoff.

 

[Bo Jandals]

cool u learned one word, happy for you, remeber it well, u ll need it when someone calls you.
Now, please stop ur bs around, u keep posting bs, blablating over dead subjects u could find answers in wikipedia.
U give french lessons to a french person, u fail dramaticaly, and u insist?
What do you expect, u are stupid beyond reason, and you prove it each day a little more.
U are pathetic.
Here some others words u need to learn in case u travel in france, cos u ll hear them a lot.
Retarded --- débile
Useless--- inutile
Stupid---Stupide (same one with an extra e , u might remeber this one better).

How do you say loser in French apart from Au revoir?

 

[gamine]

Gamine, we don't all feel the same way on this forum - I've been a member for around three years but, apart from one or two earlier posts, have only relatively recently started posting more regularly. I soon picked up that there's a little cliquey group that thinks it's on the money when it comes to discussing all things rugby, and you have come in for some really uncalled for treatment, in my view. I always judge people who post on forums on whether they would be prepared to say face to face to a person what they post on that forum, such as this, for example. Say no more, eh?

Don't let it get you down or stop you from posting.

I like New Zealanders generally - last year with my darling wife, we went to New Zealand - my first visit - and they are a likeable and friendly people, and it is a beautiful country.

But if you count the posts that have been consistently decrying the play-off for third and fourth as a nothing match, you see what arrogance can breed. Being English, and so disappointed in our overall performance, I'd have loved us to have made that playoff.

Thank you very much for taking the time to write to confirm what I have already realised, that the great majority on this forum are reasonable fans of the game and nice people.
We all get a little carried away sometimes when giving our opinions, but I don't think that outright abuse can be seen as acceptable from anyone.
I blame myself a bit for rising to the bait, but I am truly and sincerely a rugby fan and quite passionate about the game, and if it had been possible in my young day, (no women players in the 60s!) I would have loved to have played. Now I hope to live long enough to see my grandsons play for England!
I am getting very excites about the game - not long now - and I honestly don't have a favourite, may the best team win!
Best wishes to you and your wife, and thanks again.

 

[OverGore]

Thank you very much for taking the time to write to confirm what I have already realised, that the great majority on this forum are reasonable fans of the game and nice people.
We all get a little carried away sometimes when giving our opinions, but I don't think that outright abuse can be seen as acceptable from anyone.
I blame myself a bit for rising to the bait, but I am truly and sincerely a rugby fan and quite passionate about the game, and if it had been possible in my young day, (no women players in the 60s!) I would have loved to have played. Now I hope to live long enough to see my grandsons play for England!
I am getting very excites about the game - not long now - and I honestly don't have a favourite, may the best team win!
Best wishes to you and your wife, and thanks again.

please stop it, u are a kid. Idk how anyone can buy ur bs, but from ur google dictionarry french, to your PHD physics husband who cant get the principle of frame and time, come on... Get a life

 

[Bo Jandals]

please stop it, u are a kid. Idk how anyone can buy ur bs, but from ur google dictionarry french, to your PHD physics husband who cant get the principle of frame and time, come on... Get a life

TO be honest chum, she's cool even though she's an Engel, you're a Dick even though you're a french letter.

 

[OverGore]

TO be honest chum, she's cool even though she's an Engel, you're a Dick even though you're a french letter.

go have fun then answering 15 messages why a ball is forward etc...i like forums to be informative, not retarded..and she just lies over and over.

 

[Bo Jandals]

go have fun then answering 15 messages why a ball is forward etc...i like forums to be informative, not retarded..and she just lies over and over.

Yep, I'm a retard, enjoy watching the final? As a retard, where's France?

Who's the retard?

 

[Cliffyboy]

Thank you very much for taking the time to write to confirm what I have already realised, that the great majority on this forum are reasonable fans of the game and nice people.
We all get a little carried away sometimes when giving our opinions, but I don't think that outright abuse can be seen as acceptable from anyone.
I blame myself a bit for rising to the bait, but I am truly and sincerely a rugby fan and quite passionate about the game, and if it had been possible in my young day, (no women players in the 60s!) I would have loved to have played. Now I hope to live long enough to see my grandsons play for England!
I am getting very excites about the game - not long now - and I honestly don't have a favourite, may the best team win!
Best wishes to you and your wife, and thanks again.

That's alright. I myself, in the bad old days of the 11+ and living in a North London council housing estate and having failed mine - the cards were well stacked in those days - went to the local secondary modern factory fodder school where, as mad as it now seems, rugby wasn't even offered, taught and played. Oh no, that was the domain of the grammar schools and the toffee-nosed public schools.

I still see vestiges of that in England today, though, with the Cipriani situation. I don't give a fig how knowledgeable about rugby a senior coach is, Farrell should never coach at international level again. His behaviour towards Ciprinai is reprehensible and reflects very badly on him and the rest of the management team. It's when you read of this incident and one or two other negativities occurring behind the scene, that you realise we were never really in with a shout. The bottom line for me is that outside the public arena, as it were, the squad has to be united, as one, with all its disparate parts functioning as a cohesive unit. Someone, on one of these threads, made a derogatory comment about Johnson, calling him, if I recall correctly, an 'oaf', an Australian, I believe, and obviously one with a fair command of unconscious irony. Yes, he was disappointing as a coach, but as a captain, give me an such an 'oaf' on my side every day of the week. I also like the idea of another English poster who said Cipriani should be our fly half but with Owen Farrell reverting to full back. I hadn't thought of that idea but he is a good kicker and that he-man image he likes to project would or could suit him well as a number 15.