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The Clubhouse Bar
Anti-Smacking Bill in NZ
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<blockquote data-quote="Gay-Guy" data-source="post: 193862"><p>I absolutely deplore child <em>abuse</em> and would not hesitate to be violent towards a child killer given the chance...I have read the news time and again in NZ on how another child was killed and have actually wished I were in prison to deal to the killer. Children are often defenceless against the power of an adult and to kill a human at such a young age is unforgivable. To our shame here in NZ we have a VERY BIG problem with child abuse.</p><p></p><p>However in saying that children are defenceless I am also not naive....they may be defenceless but <em>they are not innocent. </em>Children are at the age where egocentric behaviour is at its highest. Almost everything they do at a young age is solely for their benefit.</p><p></p><p>This is not just to be seen amongst humans. Right across the animal kingdom there is a strong instinct to survive, to do what is neccesary, to get further ahead and to grow.</p><p></p><p>Unfotunately as a result of this primal behaviour a young childs who is trying to have his/hers needs met in the world will think very little on how that may affect others the harm that can be done.</p><p></p><p>An adult version of this behaviour of self interest coming before others wellbeing could be epitomised in its fullness in characters like...Hitler....but that is going too far off the topic.</p><p></p><p>Children will push the boundaries as far as they can....that is something that is intrinsically built into a human being...the need to self actualise.</p><p></p><p>Children will stop when they no longer feel the need to go any further or the boundary is too much for them to resist.</p><p></p><p>Children all develop differently and at different rates. Some children decide they can stop inappropriate behaviour of their own will.....others stop through bribes...others stop through persuasion.</p><p></p><p>Unfotunately there are those who do not stop thoer inappropriate behaviour with these methods.</p><p></p><p>When that situation arises where these children will not behave appropriately despite the discussions, reasonings, bribing, etc.....that is when physical force becomes the only resort left.</p><p></p><p>The Anti-Smacking lobby is rightly trying to stop child <em>abuse</em>. Good on them! I am so dead against child abuse as I am sure every here is...it is despicable.</p><p></p><p>However by disabling the right to "smack" and to label it as abuse is to disable a very effective method and quite simply the "final" method when everything else has failed.</p><p></p><p>Imagine disabling the Police from using force to apprehend or shoot dead a killer who is shooting up a high school because someone complained that Police were too abusive with force when dealing with criminals.</p><p></p><p>It is already now in NZ illegal if you tell a child who is causing chaos in the classroom to move their desk to the corner...this is seen as "exclusion" and damaging to the childs self esteem so is classed as ABUSE! In NZ a child who punches kids in the playground everyday is not allowed to be fully removed from the playground as detentions cannot exceed 20 minutes due to fear of the child being psychologically damaged. It is illegal to touch a child in NZ schools...so if you restrain a child from attacking another or if you assist the injured child to the sickbay or if you block a blow aimed at you from the violent child you are in danger of bring sued and sacked. Children can swear at you at school but if you swear back you will be sacked.They may steal from you, pop your tyres, diss you in front of their peers,defame you on Bebo, etc etc but a teacher must act within the rules and take it in their stride and attempt to teach them regardless.</p><p></p><p>NZ has people in power who abuse children...this I acknowledge...but as a result NZ has created laws that depower the majority who don't abuse and have left everything open to descend into chaos.</p><p></p><p>Where ever there are rules there will be those who push them and those who enforce them but if we disempower the enforcers then we have the descent into the abyss and ultimate self destruction.</p><p></p><p>Anti-Smacking lobby needs to think about what they are doing and realising dropping an A-Bomb may possibly take out their intended target but it will also take out everyone else...and then they will need to clean up the mess later.</p><p></p><p>Planning and consultation not rash legislation will save NZ. Especially when 80% of the country are saying no to a bill being passed.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Gay-Guy, post: 193862"] I absolutely deplore child [i]abuse[/i] and would not hesitate to be violent towards a child killer given the chance...I have read the news time and again in NZ on how another child was killed and have actually wished I were in prison to deal to the killer. Children are often defenceless against the power of an adult and to kill a human at such a young age is unforgivable. To our shame here in NZ we have a VERY BIG problem with child abuse. However in saying that children are defenceless I am also not naive....they may be defenceless but [i]they are not innocent. [/i]Children are at the age where egocentric behaviour is at its highest. Almost everything they do at a young age is solely for their benefit. This is not just to be seen amongst humans. Right across the animal kingdom there is a strong instinct to survive, to do what is neccesary, to get further ahead and to grow. Unfotunately as a result of this primal behaviour a young childs who is trying to have his/hers needs met in the world will think very little on how that may affect others the harm that can be done. An adult version of this behaviour of self interest coming before others wellbeing could be epitomised in its fullness in characters like...Hitler....but that is going too far off the topic. Children will push the boundaries as far as they can....that is something that is intrinsically built into a human being...the need to self actualise. Children will stop when they no longer feel the need to go any further or the boundary is too much for them to resist. Children all develop differently and at different rates. Some children decide they can stop inappropriate behaviour of their own will.....others stop through bribes...others stop through persuasion. Unfotunately there are those who do not stop thoer inappropriate behaviour with these methods. When that situation arises where these children will not behave appropriately despite the discussions, reasonings, bribing, etc.....that is when physical force becomes the only resort left. The Anti-Smacking lobby is rightly trying to stop child [i]abuse[/i]. Good on them! I am so dead against child abuse as I am sure every here is...it is despicable. However by disabling the right to "smack" and to label it as abuse is to disable a very effective method and quite simply the "final" method when everything else has failed. Imagine disabling the Police from using force to apprehend or shoot dead a killer who is shooting up a high school because someone complained that Police were too abusive with force when dealing with criminals. It is already now in NZ illegal if you tell a child who is causing chaos in the classroom to move their desk to the corner...this is seen as "exclusion" and damaging to the childs self esteem so is classed as ABUSE! In NZ a child who punches kids in the playground everyday is not allowed to be fully removed from the playground as detentions cannot exceed 20 minutes due to fear of the child being psychologically damaged. It is illegal to touch a child in NZ schools...so if you restrain a child from attacking another or if you assist the injured child to the sickbay or if you block a blow aimed at you from the violent child you are in danger of bring sued and sacked. Children can swear at you at school but if you swear back you will be sacked.They may steal from you, pop your tyres, diss you in front of their peers,defame you on Bebo, etc etc but a teacher must act within the rules and take it in their stride and attempt to teach them regardless. NZ has people in power who abuse children...this I acknowledge...but as a result NZ has created laws that depower the majority who don't abuse and have left everything open to descend into chaos. Where ever there are rules there will be those who push them and those who enforce them but if we disempower the enforcers then we have the descent into the abyss and ultimate self destruction. Anti-Smacking lobby needs to think about what they are doing and realising dropping an A-Bomb may possibly take out their intended target but it will also take out everyone else...and then they will need to clean up the mess later. Planning and consultation not rash legislation will save NZ. Especially when 80% of the country are saying no to a bill being passed. [/QUOTE]
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