Aphiwe Dyantyi banned for four years

[TRF_Olyy]

No one grinds up SARMS pills and puts them in their intra-workout drink - it's just an absolute nonsense excuse.

I say let em juice, though - for recovery benefits as much as anything.

 

[RedruthRFC]

No one grinds up SARMS pills and puts them in their intra-workout drink - it's just an absolute nonsense excuse.

I say let em juice, though - for recovery benefits as much as anything.

The question of how / why the contaminants ended up where they allegedly did is a valid one that would presumably be asked. The only way I can think of of proving they did would be to test a sealed container from the same batch of all the supplements that he was taking at the time. Given what I've read about how poorly regulated and dodgy supplement companies are in SA (and elsewhere), this strikes me as a sensible precaution for any sportman who might wish to use this defence in the future.

I used to champion the cause of leveling the playing field by letting athletes take whatever they want, but now understand that in modern professional sport, there is no way that this could happen. In a rugby context, it would fly in the face of mitigating the risk of concussion (larger players), would likely see an increase in injuries as a result of players' muscles getting stronger at an accelerated rate compared to their joints. You would also open the game up to future litigation from players who believe that they harmed themselves by taking PEDs in order to keep up with the competition. Plus it would be PR suicide.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I mean...he probably just took SARMS.
They're not exactly hard to come by, maybe he wanted an edge going into a World Cup training camp and decided to run a cycle beforehand, not realising how long they stay in your system for.

SARMS are in the murky water of not-quite-legit-peds-but-still-harder-than-supplements - there's the off chance he didn't know what he took was fully banned (I know ostarine only recently became a fully banned substance, and tons of athletes instantly popped for it - but were given some leniency)

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

 

[RedruthRFC]

I mean...he probably just took SARMS.

I get that Ligandrol would fall into that category, but would Dbol and methyltestosterone?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I get that Ligandrol would fall into that category, but would Dbol and methyltestosterone?

Ah, I didn't realise that's what he failed for - in my head it was three different SARMS.
Either way - no one adds that to their water bottle at the gym (and then offers a swig to their mate)

 

[RedruthRFC]

Either way - no one adds that to their water bottle at the gym (and then offers a swig to their mate)

Agreed. I think I've heard that defence from players within the community game, I don't ever recall it from a professional. Given that they'll have been specifically told not to swig magic potions from randoms at the gym, I'm pretty sure that the authorities consider this close to no defence at all.

I was assuming that if this is the line he's going down, he would be intending to claim that a legit supplement that he had taken was contaminated. To be best of my knowledge, the burden of proof lies with him to prove that this was the case, hence my comment about keeping duplicates of batches of supplements. It's going to be tough to argue that significant enough quantities of three different PEDs were present in the factory that produced the supplement for him to test positive for them. The only time I recall this defence being used successfully was in the late 90s when a Maximuscle supplement caused a spate of positive tests. I recall a Blackheath second row attempting this defence back in 2014. He had no way of proving his claim and received a two year ban, which would have been pretty standard for a community game player at the time.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's a pretty frequent defence in MMA, because they're usually sponsored by dodgy supp companies that will lace their supps with SARMS and not declare it on the label,
Think it's only worked a couple of times though (involves USADA having to buy multiple unopened tubs and test them themselves, at the cost of the athlete).

 

[RedruthRFC]

That's interesting, what a farce. I bet the supplement companies are as chuffed with their athletes trying to sell them out as those athletes are with their sponsors stitching them up in a drug test! Sounds like an excuse for litigation all round, not least a costly class action suit.

In the absence of a sealed sample from the same batch, testing other samples of the same product and hoping for the same contaminant seems like the only way of proving this defence as you say.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's interesting, what a farce. I bet the supplement companies are as chuffed with their athletes trying to sell them out as those athletes are with their sponsors stitching them up in a drug test! Sounds like an excuse for litigation all round, not least a costly class action suit.

In the absence of a sealed sample from the same batch, testing other samples of the same product and hoping for the same contaminant seems like the only way of proving this defence as you say.

The conspiracy is that it's done deliberately - the companies then shutdown and reopen in a new name

 

[RedruthRFC]

Wow, live and learn! What are they alleged to be gaining by doing this?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Free advertising, I guess - you get all these athletes sharing how good your XTRA SUPER MASS GAIN LEAN SHRED pills are, get a bunch of teenagers buying them,
Few months later you swap the packing and start again

Think the rumours started when it was found that a manager of many MMA fighters was found to be part-owner of a supplement company that was caught selling tainted supplements.

Probably all tin foil, but I love a good conspiracy

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Has anyone on the boards done any roids or similar and willing to share their experiences, positive and/or negative? It's a subject I'm very interested in but it's hard to find any perspectives other than they're absolutely awful and should be avoided or some guy who looks like Thanos telling you they're the best thing ever when done "safely". Presumably because 90% of the people who use them moderately say they don't use them.

I have no interest in doing them myself by the way, just find it fascinating.

 

[big ginger 8]

Stronger by Science is one of the best sources around for all strength related stuff whether it be in written or spoken form.

Supplement Regulation, Steroids, and Rick Collins, Esq. (Podcast Episode 4)

In Episode 4, Eric discusses the challenges of being an ultra-elite two-sport athlete with a bad hip, and Greg shares some crazy feats of strength. Greg and Eric are joined by Rick Collins, Esq., CSCS, one of the top legal experts in the world of dietary supplements, for an in-depth discussion...

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This episode of the podcast has a very interesting interview at the end with Rick Collins who is a lawyer that deals with a lot of steroids cases.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

I also want to bring up a hypothetical here. I that the last 3 players who tested positive for steroids were Ralepelle, Hadebe and Dyanti. All 3 of them are black south africans. And my thinking here, is that there was so much pressure on them to be top players and make it in the Springbok squad, that they tried to take a shortcut and got caught. So the hypothetical question here is, would these guys have even dabbled with these substances, if there wasn't any talk of quota/transformation, and is this perhaps one of the traps the players might fall into, to try and beat a flawed system?

I might be missing something but wouldn't the quota system make it easier for black players as they know there are spots for them? so less pressure to be the best?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Has anyone on the boards done any roids or similar and willing to share their experiences, positive and/or negative? It's a subject I'm very interested in but it's hard to find any perspectives other than they're absolutely awful and should be avoided or some guy who looks like Thanos telling you they're the best thing ever when done "safely". Presumably because 90% of the people who use them moderately say they don't use them.

I have no interest in doing them myself by the way, just find it fascinating.

When I was working in the States I dabbled with dianabol. But not too high of a dose to make me look like a freak. It was more to do with me being over 150kg's, and after my car accident my busted knee and shoulder couldn't lift weights so I used the roids to help me get stronger, and hopefully turn some of that fat into muscle.

I used it for about 6 months (the time I was working in Florida), and I managed to drop my weight to 115kg's and went from bench pressing 40kg to 120kg.

Man, now that I reminisce, I realise that, that was 18 years ago! And the dumb things you do when you're 19...


Anyway, just to stay on topic, Dyanti has lodged an appeal on his ban yesterday afternoon.