Are the best International teams too fast for today's referees?

[megaresp]

Well done The All Blacks, you have made this Kiwi very happy and very proud. And congratulations Australia, both for an excellent performance (thought my heart was going to burst during a certain 10 minute interval ), and for a lesson in gracious sportsmanship.

In my view, both teams played at a speed that nobody else in the world can match at the moment. I wonder if the current crop of referees are too slow to keep up with the best in the world. For example...

• Numerous forward passes over the course of the RWC, apparently unseen by officials
• The alleged invisibility cloak around players such as McCaw and Pocock
• The difficulty other teams had handling NZ's attacking defence, and the same can be said about the defensive skills of Australia and South Africa

Many have said the Northern Hemisphere has been left behind, and needs to catch up with the speed of S.H. play. Perhaps the same applies to International referees?

What do you think about this idea? Have the refs been left in the wake of the world's top teams?

 

[AAndre]

He! He! You might have a point! Young Barret galloped into the sunset and the ref could not see him for dust! That boy is quick. In fact, he was faster than the cameraman.

 

[megaresp]

He! He! You might have a point! Young Barret galloped into the sunset and the ref could not see him for dust! That boy is quick. In fact, he was faster than the cameraman.

Indeed.

But I'm really thinking in terms of the forwards. They seem to be much faster than they used to be. Assuming that's true, then I wonder if that impacts on the decision-making of the referees. A lot goes on in scrums, rucks and mauls. If the ref is trying to catch up, or catch his breath, it must have some impact on the ability to deliver a good decision.

I'm not complaining about this, by the way. I am interested in other people's thoughts as to whether increased speed up front could require that referees also step up their game (so to speak) to compensate.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'm not sure if it's speed but more an aura. Teams like the ABs are the best and so there is this sort assumption that when it appears they are doing something illegal, it is because they are actually legal and playing right on the limit rather than the assumption that it is infact illegal. It is certainly the case that SH teams tend to get the rub of the green vs NH sides far too consistantly when they can infringe just as often.

 

[TJAY]

You could be right about the speed. It's been interesting watching both league rugby and international WC rugby at the same time period and comparing things like players, tactics and referees, and the main difference is the level of rugby obviously and also the difference in how the rules are implemented in the games. A lot of things that were being whistled up by the referees in the WC do not get whistled up at league level in the UK and Ireland. Iv'e seen countless arms around the necks this weekend, but at league level they hardly ever get called.

 

[AAndre]

Sure they are contemplating the question as well. Must be. Hussain Bolt for ref?

 

[smartcooky]

In my view, both teams played at a speed that nobody else in the world can match at the moment. And I wonder if the current crop of referees are simply too slow to keep up with the best in the world.

Its simply reality.

A referee at test level has to have accumlated considerable experience, and that takes a number of years. He is therefore likely to be as old as the oldest players on the park, or older, and therefore, slower.

Nigel Owens 44
Jerome Garces 42
Chris Pollock 42
John Lacey 42
Glen Jackson 40
Romain Poite 40
George Clancy 38
Craig Joubert 37
Wayne Barnes 36
JP Doyle 36
Jaco Peyper 35

Being a kiwi, you will have experienced first hand the result of having an inexperienced referee thrown in at the deep end!!!

Numerous forward passes (over the course of the RWC) that went unseen by officials

I don't think there were as many missed as you think. Just because some biased media jock or forum poster thinks a pass was forward does not make it so. As has been amply demonstrated, most of the media scribes still seem unable to tell the difference between a forward throw and a forward catch!!

The alleged invisibility cloak around players such as McCaw and Pocock

The invisibility cloak is a myth, created by sports jocks to justify writing colum-inches about how McCaw and Pocock and others are cheats. The fact is that just because a referee does not penalise an infringement does not mean that he has missed seeing it. The referee may simply have decided that the infringement wasn't material and did not disavantage the non-infringing team. For example, in the final there were two occasion when a ball carrier ran into his own player in front of him which is technically accidental offside, but on both occasions we heard Owens call "tackle made, play on". This means that Owens decided the infringements were not material because the had not prevented the ball carrier from being tackled, so play on.

On other occasions we hear Owens yelling "lost now" or "release now". This is the referee telling players with their hands on the ball that they need to get their hands off. Now technically, those players were already infringing.

The alternative is for the referee to pull up every infringement. I don't think you or anyone else would like the game we would get if they did that!!

The difficulty that even a teams of the calibre of South Africa and Australia have in handling NZ's attacking defence

Not sure how referee speed is relevent to this?

 

[Kiwi_]

Looking at the ages of those refs makes me realize how young Bryce Lawrence was when he retried, he'd just hit 40's. He more or less got ran out off the game though, the SA vs Australia quarter was his funeral.. I felt sorry for him.

What's your thoughts on Walsh's early retirement Smartcooky? He was always a little facetious and vain for my liking, but NZ does miss a referee of his status.

 

[megaresp]

A referee at test level has to have accumlated considerable experience, and that takes a number of years. He is therefore likely to be as old as the oldest players on the park, or older, and therefore, slower.

I was hoping you would join this thread. I enjoy your contributions.

I don't think there were as many missed as you think.

I read your detailed post on what was/was not a forward pass, and found it most interesting. Nether-the-less, there are examples of forward passes that slipped by. Of course, there always are, and such is the nature of sport.

The invisibility cloak is a myth...

I used "alleged" because I agree that it's largely a myth, and that Ritchie isn't doing anything particularly unusual/dirty/nasty that isn't also being done by others. I included it because a player that gets there before the ref has caught up may well get away with (cough) inventive tactics.

Not sure how referee speed is relevent to this?

My hypothesis is that, perhaps, refs increasingly find themselves unable to keep pace with modern forwards in top teams such as NZ and Australia. As a result, such a ref may miss more, and/or these forwards have more opportunities to exploit an out-of-breath ref. And that, perhaps, forwards from the days of yore didn't have sufficient speed to outpace the ref.

Could be a load of ********, but I thought it worth discussing.

 

[smartcooky]

What's your thoughts on Walsh's early retirement Smartcooky? He was always a little facetious and vain for my liking, but NZ does miss a referee of his status.

Well, in the end, Australia missed him (no Aussie refs at RWC this year)

His retirement at 42 was for personal reasons. He was presented with a busness opportunity that he could not turn down.

[TEXTAREA]“I would be doing all of the key stakeholders in the game - from officials to the players to the fans - an injustice if I was unable to 100% channel my energies and devote my full attention towards refereeing Super Rugby and Test Matches.

“I would not want my new focus to impact the integrity of the competitions in which I am involved. I will be forever indebted to Australian Rugby for including me so openly following a difficult period for me personally. I would also like to acknowledge my time with New Zealand Rugby.

“Their decision to end my contract in 2009 was challenging, but was ultimately the best thing that has ever happened in my life. It made me confront who I was, and how I carried myself.â€
- Steve Walsh

[/TEXTAREA]

 

[AAndre]

The obvious answer to the slow-ref question is that ref's should be "grown" from school-level. I think the answer lies there...somewhere. The commentators love it when they get something right, like a blind chicken also getting a grain to eat. Saturday's duo took it to the next level.

 

[Five Meters Out]

Well done The All Blacks

What do you think about this idea? Have the refs been left in the wake of the world's top teams?

Yes!

 

[KeyboardWorrier]

Nigel Owens, because he plays for the 2015 World Rugby team of the year.