Are ther NZRU not listening or watching ....

Discussion in 'ITM (NPC) Cup' started by Jethro, Sep 9, 2009.

  1. Jethro

    Jethro Guest

    Last year Bay of Plenty was in disarray, results on the pitch woeful, financially $1 million in the red, by the end of 2009 the Union is going to post a profit and looks forward to a bright future. Up and down the country, will the exception of Counties (special circumstances, home ground redevelopment etc), we are seeing the same result. Manawatu, Tasman, Southland, etc all reporting good results in the face of a hostile economic climate. Is interest in the ANZC this year up due to the dropping of four teams or due to the increased competitive nature of the former minions in the competition? The NZRU are refusing to even ask that question and are hell bent on breaking something that looks like it may have come of age.

    Why not give the ANZC three more years to see if things are sustainable rather than kick heatland supporters in the teeth once again? Anyone want to go back to the days of player drift to the big five S14 franchises who arguably stopped development spending as they pillaged the rest of the country?

    Why exactly is the NZRU hell bent on JON's path to S14 destruction at the cost of the provincial game in New Zealand? We need the cash from the SANZA deal no questions asked, but at what price? Why try to expand that competition into the dog's breakfast that the 2010 competition promises to be? As stated on here before the new look competition is going to lose a lot of supporters myself included, even blind Freddy can see that.

    The NZRU are not alone in going insane at the moment, check the ARU's recent decisions. ARC scrapped after one season because, shock, horror, it was costing the ARU some cash. Sorry where were the heartland teams in places like central NSW and the Central Coast? The ARU followed former NZRU thinking by pandering to the rich clubs and basically boycotting the regional areas, this has cost Rugby any chance of dominating the football codes in regions like the Central Coast, the Coast is now firmly behind a mungoball expansion team. The Western Force, reports from over in the WA, are in financial trouble due to a sponsor falling over and a drop in seasonal ticket take ups. Solution, yeap another team in AFL heartland Melbourne, notable the Storm are probably not that far away from bankruptcy by all accounts.

    When will our Administrators learn more is not necessary good, and leave competitions like the ANZC that are finally working alone. Bugger restricting the comp due to the S15 shambles headed our way, why exactly is that paramount? As crowds and viewing numbers fall off in the heartlands perhaps Tew and Co will finally see some light.
     
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  3. jawmalawm24

    jawmalawm24 Guest

    It's pretty stupid that they're gonna drop 4 teams at the end of the season and when they do it means only the elite 10 teams can playoff for the Ranfurly Shield as if it wasn't hard enough to try get a challenge for it and the 1st division will have no chance what so ever.

    If it aint broke don't try to fix it. Nzrfu should keep 14 teams because as it stands the competitions in the best shape it's been for a very long time. Anz Cup or Npc whatever you wanna call it is great to watch and I've never really been as excited for it in ages especially when you see teams that are usually hanging around the bottom of the table right at the top of it now.
     
  4. smartcooky

    smartcooky Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jethro @ Sep 10 2009, 07:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    A lot of excellent points well made.


    Punter interest in the Air New Zealand Cup this year is up, well up. The average attendances this season so far (10988) after 6 rounds) exceeds that of both the Magners League (7895) and the Guinness Premiership (10783) over the first six rounds last season, Every home crowd for Tasman this season has been bigger than the average home attendance for Otago in the 2009 Super 14!!!!

    The NZRU do appear to be utterly determined to break a competition that looks like it is finally beginning to work properly. OK, so what if the NZRU change their stance again. We're they to do so, it would show that they understand that things have changed, and that the Provincial Unions have performed well. By not doing so, they will show themselves to be like a mini version of the iRB, a staid, stuffy and cumbersome organisation that is utterly unable to adapt when circumstances change, and change they have.
     
  5. Juggernaut

    Juggernaut Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 10 2009, 11:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    A lot of excellent points well made.


    Punter interest in the Air New Zealand Cup this year is up, well up. The average attendances this season so far (10988) after 6 rounds) exceeds that of both the Magners League (7895) and the Guinness Premiership (10783) over the first six rounds last season, Every home crowd for Tasman this season has been bigger than the average home attendance for Otago in the 2009 Super 14!!!!

    The NZRU do appear to be utterly determined to break a competition that looks like it is finally beginning to work properly. OK, so what if the NZRU change their stance again. We're they to do so, it would show that they understand that things have changed, and that the Provincial Unions have performed well. By not doing so, they will show themselves to be like a mini version of the iRB, a staid, stuffy and cumbersome organisation that is utterly unable to adapt when circumstances change, and change they have.
    [/b][/quote]
    So in other words, they're a bunch of "old farts".
     
  6. William18

    William18 Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Sep 10 2009, 10:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    A lot of excellent points well made.


    Punter interest in the Air New Zealand Cup this year is up, well up. The average attendances this season so far (10988) after 6 rounds) exceeds that of both the Magners League (7895) and the Guinness Premiership (10783) over the first six rounds last season, Every home crowd for Tasman this season has been bigger than the average home attendance for Otago in the 2009 Super 14!!!!

    The NZRU do appear to be utterly determined to break a competition that looks like it is finally beginning to work properly. OK, so what if the NZRU change their stance again. We're they to do so, it would show that they understand that things have changed, and that the Provincial Unions have performed well. By not doing so, they will show themselves to be like a mini version of the iRB, a staid, stuffy and cumbersome organisation that is utterly unable to adapt when circumstances change, and change they have.
    [/b][/quote]
    Where did you receive your crowd averages from? I heard the average crowd was more like 8,000, just under 8,000 actually.
     
  7. William18

    William18 Guest

  8. Jethro

    Jethro Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Sep 11 2009, 07:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    Tew has lost the handle on the fact that the NPC now the ANZC was the crown jewel of NZ rugby. He can make whatever claims he wants, fact are the crowd figures are very strong and television audiences are going through the roof, something the S14 didn't overly have an abundance of.

    We need the SANZA agreement for cash flow, but not at the cost of our internal competitions. The Saffas need to seriously look at the impact on CC as well.

    With a four team national competition, keep the S14 as is rather than potentially alienating a lot of heartland fans both in NZ and Australia. As stated previously the Central Coast over here made applications for both ARC and S14 expansion teams, neither application was really considered by the ARU although financially sound, the area is now firmly behind the Mariners (Soccer) and pushing hard for an NRL expansion franchise. Another region the ARU has lost perhaps? I will certainly be supporting the CC Bears rather than the shambles the S15 promises to be.

    Leave the ANZC alone for a further three years and then evaluate results both on the pitch and on the cash flow reports.
     
  9. wjd23104

    wjd23104 Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jethro @ Sep 15 2009, 12:02 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    Tew has lost the handle on the fact that the NPC now the ANZC was the crown jewel of NZ rugby. He can make whatever claims he wants, fact are the crowd figures are very strong and television audiences are going through the roof, something the S14 didn't overly have an abundance of.

    We need the SANZA agreement for cash flow, but not at the cost of our internal competitions. The Saffas need to seriously look at the impact on CC as well.

    With a four team national competition, keep the S14 as is rather than potentially alienating a lot of heartland fans both in NZ and Australia. As stated previously the Central Coast over here made applications for both ARC and S14 expansion teams, neither application was really considered by the ARU although financially sound, the area is now firmly behind the Mariners (Soccer) and pushing hard for an NRL expansion franchise. Another region the ARU has lost perhaps? I will certainly be supporting the CC Bears rather than the shambles the S15 promises to be.

    Leave the ANZC alone for a further three years and then evaluate results both on the pitch and on the cash flow reports.
    [/b][/quote] One: Without Sanzar Cash the internal Competitions are likely to go down the toilet. Two: The Super 15 comp means the air NZ Cup must be shortened. Someone said BOP are back on Track so what? They aren't going to be dropped. Tasman, Northland,Counties and Manawatu are almost certain to be dropped.
     
  10. danger

    danger Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Sep 11 2009, 09:00 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    It sounds like absolute bullshit to me. He says teams can get promoted to premier division, but the teams in the 1st division will have a much lower salary cap. When the 4 teams go down, they will lose a hell of a lot of good players. Aaron Cruden Jared Payne and Rene Ranger are future all black prospects, there is no way their unions will hold on to them.

    They wont be able to afford members of staff such as video analysts and individual trainers, and they wont gain any money because noones going to pack out a stadium to watch northland play north otago. Its taken Manawatu untill now to be a truely competitive team, thats what 4 years. Even if they do get promoted, they wont be able to rebuild themselves into the caliber they are now in a single year. the team that gets promoted will more often then not just drop straight back down the next year.

    The real winners here are the power house unions like Waikato, Canterbury and especially Auckland. Its a return to the days where the best players play for the top 5 teams. and its bullshit. im watching NRL next year.
     
  11. Jethro

    Jethro Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wjd23104 @ Sep 20 2009, 02:32 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    Tew has lost the handle on the fact that the NPC now the ANZC was the crown jewel of NZ rugby. He can make whatever claims he wants, fact are the crowd figures are very strong and television audiences are going through the roof, something the S14 didn't overly have an abundance of.

    We need the SANZA agreement for cash flow, but not at the cost of our internal competitions. The Saffas need to seriously look at the impact on CC as well.

    With a four team national competition, keep the S14 as is rather than potentially alienating a lot of heartland fans both in NZ and Australia. As stated previously the Central Coast over here made applications for both ARC and S14 expansion teams, neither application was really considered by the ARU although financially sound, the area is now firmly behind the Mariners (Soccer) and pushing hard for an NRL expansion franchise. Another region the ARU has lost perhaps? I will certainly be supporting the CC Bears rather than the shambles the S15 promises to be.

    Leave the ANZC alone for a further three years and then evaluate results both on the pitch and on the cash flow reports.
    [/b][/quote] One: Without Sanzar Cash the internal Competitions are likely to go down the toilet. Two: The Super 15 comp means the air NZ Cup must be shortened. Someone said BOP are back on Track so what? They aren't going to be dropped. Tasman, Northland,Counties and Manawatu are almost certain to be dropped.
    [/b][/quote]

    One : In agreeme nt we need SANZAR cash.

    Two : ANZC rugby is outperforming, on average crowds at games and television audience, a heck of a lot of Super 14 matches .. looking at you Otago.

    You're expecting we should simply discard what's become a drawcard for the game in New Zealand?

    If they strip four teams for next year expect some heated court action as teams like Tasman and Counties have spent a lot of money coming up to ANZC standard simply to have Tew move the goal posts on them. This simply reeks of Tew bottom margin thinking and once again is a slap in the face to the thousands turning up each week for the ANZC.

    Why shouldn't the NZRU be totally honest about things and drop the bottom four placed ANZC teams, which included Otago and North Harbour currently btw.

    Personally I don't see any need to drop four teams as the S15 is going to be a complete shambles of the highest order. Are the NZRU expecting the heartland to get in behind the major centers playing each other? Think they are in for a shock there. Personally I'm in Oz and will catch the Tahs playing the Reds, the rest of it holds no interest.
     
  12. erwanseb

    erwanseb Guest

    The best structure has to be pyramidal, regardless of the sport.

    Strong local/regionnal competition (ANZ, Top 14, Guiness)
    International club/province competition (HC, S14)
    International rugby

    The three levels have to be develloped harmoniously, problem is that Oz and to a lesser extent Nz have overplayed both internationals and S14 at the expense of domestic competition.

    The domestic competition is essential for people/fans to keep in touch with star player and for the popularity of the game, who is going to watch internationall rugby in the stadium, a few people only.

    The domestic competition is also the key breeding ground for upper level, not just for players but for referees, managers, coaches,....

    The domestic competition is also the one that can provide a decent salary to the largest number, remove it and keep the star players only, then the appeal of the sport as a professional activity drops dramatically. A low level domestic competition will harm the upper level in the long term as the gap will widen between domestic and international.

    Overall poor average quality of Australian referees is such an example, lack of depth in Oz front row another although the Oz scrum has behaved well this year.

    Oz has gone around this issue by poaching league players from time to time but tha'ts not the right solution.

    Of course Money is needed from Sanzar but there is serious danger at overplaying this card, hopefully bringing Argentina into the fore will bring back some balance.

    Stupid question, why not having a common domestic competition in NZ/Oz with the best teams qualifying for the s14. Cost of travel should be manageable, the competition would have a serious prize, a qualification for the s14 and potential sponsors. That's a kind of a ******* solution but should be looked at carefully.

    SA does not have this problem as its pool of players is huge and the Currie cup viable on its own.
     
  13. Woldog

    Woldog Guest

    Oz need to televise Rugby Union more....
     
  14. William18

    William18 Guest

    What people don't understand is that all provincial union wanted the competition to be in a small period of time and they all wanted to have a full round robin. You can not have both of those things and then still have a 14 team competition, the clubs did it to themselves.

    This is about dropping the four worst teams in the competition. Why should a team like Counties Manakau be there? They get just about zero support from the local community, are generally rooted to the bottom of the table and as far as I see it they can not be making much money. What is the point in keeping a team if no one even supports them? These measures are not designed to make the competition less even or fairer. Instead, they will keep clubs on their toes and force them to improve year and year out. Promotion/relegation means that it is interesting at the bottom of the table and at the top. It also gives the teams in the heartland Championship the chance to move up, a chance which they were previously denied. As long as the NZRU makes the right decision and does not drop down teams that deserve to stay up then it is an excellent measure.
     
  15. Jethro

    Jethro Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Woldog @ Sep 21 2009, 12:48 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    And bring back the ARC ... heck bite the bullet and put ARC franchises in the regions. Not sure about Queensland, but you could have (not sure if anyone's interested anymore) put franchises on the Central Coast and out in the Bathurst region. Both places put in proposals for the ARC when it was being mooted and both largely ignored by the ARU.

    For people wondering there's heavy coverage of NRL and AFL, the NBL imploded after losing free to air television coverage ... tick, tick, tick
     
  16. Jethro

    Jethro Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Sep 21 2009, 03:31 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    1. Counties spent at least a season playing away from home in order to upgrade their stadium.

    2. The NZRU pretty much said they were gone in 2010 making it bloody hard to attract sponsorship.

    And remembering it was the NZRU who came up with the fourteen team concept in the first place, basically throwing out the highly successful NPC as they re-arranged some deck chairs. They are basically doing the same again.
     
  17. candybum

    candybum Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jethro @ Sep 22 2009, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    1. Counties spent at least a season playing away from home in order to upgrade their stadium.

    2. The NZRU pretty much said they were gone in 2010 making it bloody hard to attract sponsorship.

    And remembering it was the NZRU who came up with the fourteen team concept in the first place, basically throwing out the highly successful NPC as they re-arranged some deck chairs. They are basically doing the same again.

    [/b][/quote]

    Yup it was fail from the get go. Why did they ever change the format? can't remember apart from the NZRU being douchebags.
     
  18. Jethro

    Jethro Guest

    Still think they should leave the ANZC alone and revisit in a couple of years to review rather than making a decision on a situation that no longer exists. Anyone seriously think the four provinces headed down aren't going to be raped of players and the team managing to gain promotion the following year isn't going to be cannon fodder for the existing nine premier league teams?

    The problem with the old NPC system was lack of movement between the second division and first division, grinding teeth time for Bay supporters. It lead to players leaving the provinces for the S14 bases in order to have a shot at higher recognition. This is not a good thing for the health of the code in NZ. I would much rather watch 12 or so competitive teams than return to the five haves and the rest of us being the have nots.
     
  19. William18

    William18 Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jethro @ Sep 22 2009, 11:15 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    1. Counties spent at least a season playing away from home in order to upgrade their stadium.

    2. The NZRU pretty much said they were gone in 2010 making it bloody hard to attract sponsorship.

    And remembering it was the NZRU who came up with the fourteen team concept in the first place, basically throwing out the highly successful NPC as they re-arranged some deck chairs. They are basically doing the same again.
    [/b][/quote]
    I originally agreed with what the NZRU had done. I realised after the first season that it just was not sustainable. The games were just of a poor quality and made it hard for me to watch them. I think the NZRU made a mistake.
     
  20. Haysie

    Haysie Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jethro @ Sep 22 2009, 09:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    And bring back the ARC ... heck bite the bullet and put ARC franchises in the regions. Not sure about Queensland, but you could have (not sure if anyone's interested anymore) put franchises on the Central Coast and out in the Bathurst region. Both places put in proposals for the ARC when it was being mooted and both largely ignored by the ARU.

    For people wondering there's heavy coverage of NRL and AFL, the NBL imploded after losing free to air television coverage ... tick, tick, tick
    [/b][/quote]


    Central Coast did have a franchise, the Central Coast Rays. In fact, they won the competition in its only year.

    But I agree wholeheartedly with you - Rugby Union is still very much alive in Queensland though as well as anywhere throughout Australia. All it takes is a little bit of media input, more exposure, development (if only minor) at the grassroots level (look at what the AFL and NRL have done. It's an absolute joke that the ARU hasn't done anything even remotely similar to that).

    Having said that though, we need the government's backing. I believe there was an enormous grant promised to the Ballymore Trust in order to begin redevelopments of the home of rugby in Australia, Ballymore Oval, but with the governmental change of guard (K-Rudd) this grant was removed and given to Australia's bid for the FIFA World Cup.

    This tears the heart out of any passionate supporter in the country!
     
  21. smartcooky

    smartcooky Guest

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Sep 24 2009, 06:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
    1. Counties spent at least a season playing away from home in order to upgrade their stadium.

    2. The NZRU pretty much said they were gone in 2010 making it bloody hard to attract sponsorship.

    And remembering it was the NZRU who came up with the fourteen team concept in the first place, basically throwing out the highly successful NPC as they re-arranged some deck chairs. They are basically doing the same again.
    [/b][/quote]
    I originally agreed with what the NZRU had done. I realised after the first season that it just was not sustainable. The games were just of a poor quality and made it hard for me to watch them. I think the NZRU made a mistake.

    [/b][/quote]

    That may be so then, but this is now

    This competition is a ripper.

    Initally, the new teams performed poorly, but they have grown, and a lot of new talent has come to the fore that would NEVER have been seen had it not been for the 14 team ANZC. Who would have ever heard of Aaron Cruden, Zac Guiilford, Israel Dagg, Jared Payne, Rene Ranger, Matt Berquist, Kade Poki or Mike Delany had the teams they play for been playing Heartland Championship? They never would have got a look in.


    Provincial Rugby is the lifeblood of NZ rugby and now, just as it is coming to fruition, the numb-skulls at the NZRU are going to chop it off at the knees. Dropping to 10 teams will stuff the game in those regions that get chopped.

    The four teams likely to get the chop are;

    Tasman - pop 101,000
    Counties - pop 395,000
    Manawatu - pop 190,000
    Bay of Plenty - pop 239,000

    TOTAL - 925,000

    That is just over 1/5 of the country that the NZRU will be alienating... consigning to the backwaters.

    They might just have their 10 team competititon next year, but I won't be watching.
     
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