Argentina 2019

Discussion in 'Rugby World Cup 2015' started by RichardRheeder, Oct 20, 2015.

  1. stus768

    stus768 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    592
    Are they definitely not allowed to play if they're not with the franchise?
     
  2. Forum Ad Advertisement

  3. Xapi

    Xapi Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    51
    Country Flag:

    Argentina

    Club or Nation:

    Argentina


    At the moment, yes, there will be a ban on players contracted on the Northern Hemisphere leagues (I assume local league players will be eligible)
     
  4. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2014
    Messages:
    2,935
    Location:
    London
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    Bath

    No one should go overboard on just one result ... but this is NOT just about one result! To a lot of people north of the equator, until this WC Argentina were still a big pack with Hernandez and no other skilful backs, a better version of Italy who couldn't mix with the big boys. But they were never underdogs against Ireland, they were always at the very least level pegging; I personally am slightly annoyed with myself for buying into the Irish talk of "strength in depth" rather than backing my original instinct to have them as clear favourites.

    I said a long time ago, when there was talk about whether Arg would join the 3N or the 6N, that the best thing for them would be to play in the south but the best thing for us would be to play in Europe. I wish we got to see this team play all of us in the north every year, pushing us to keep up with their back play. Everyone would benefit I think.
     
  5. Chistera

    Chistera Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2014
    Messages:
    237
    Country Flag:

    France

    Club or Nation:

    Toulouse

    Same goes for Japan with their own Sunwolves franchise, and Ireland has long proved that having large groups of internationals playing together at club level greatly helps in having a well-oiled clicking national side.
    But before 2019, Argentina has to be the favourite, on quarter-finals performance, against Australia and could give the ABs another serious scare in the final, they have a very real chance of winning it.
     
  6. Xapi

    Xapi Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    51
    Country Flag:

    Argentina

    Club or Nation:

    Argentina

    Of those, Imhoff is the worst loss, Ayerza and Lobbe are due to retire before 2019. Bosch is also not signing.

    Interesting link in spanish, will translate some:

    http://canchallena.lanacion.com.ar/1820635-agustin-pichot-y-los-pumas

    Agustín Pichot, on Aug 20th, 2015

    What players are you the most upset about not having in 2016?

    Not having the players who are ending their carreers. Bosch, Lobbe, Albacete, Ayerza, players who were part of the last 10 years with the Pumas and are not coming to the franchise for whatever reason. But I understand the reasons. On the other hand, I would have loved to have Imhoff, but Racing made an offer we can't compete with.

    After four years, matches are being won more regularily. Isn't it a step back to lose the players from Europe?

    We can't make plans based on what people think. Is it a risk to not have those playing in Europe? Yes, it's not the best. But if you don't have the best players, who would play Super Rugby? You can't play a development team against the Sharks. Exceptions create conflict in a team, "Why does he get something and I don't?"

    Can't something be done rules-wise to avoid this? Rugby is a kingdom of exceptions.

    I like rationality, not exceptions. Because, afterwards, how do you explain it? It would be very unfair to the rest of the players who also resigned money. It is not my desition. Hourcade and his staff made the list. He was very clear, it is in a Board Meeting Record, a budget was assigned, Adrián Vazquez (Head of HR) was signed, and the coaches established the priorities, positions, years of contract, etc.

    So, logically, Hourcade will be the Franchise coach

    No. Since we didn't have a Franchise coach, we started with the players. This is being talked about in the international teams department. This starts with Hourcade, who is the Head Coach of the National team. He will not coach the franchise. The Coach of the Franchis and the National team can't be the same.

    Can he cease to be NAtional Head Coach and go to the Franchise

    It's possible, but it's not something that is in the table to my knowledge. The Franchise coaches are not discussed. This week we hire the last player. We decided to wait and see how the coaches develop, how Daniel (Hourcade) took his collaborators, if there was someone who could do it. This will be discussed obviously when the WC is over. Youhave a bad World Cup, you lose to Tonga, is everyone continuing after that? I don't know.

    If Japan resign from the SR, can there be a second Argentina team?

    No. Financially it would be very complicated for Argentina. The funds wouldn't be there. (...) When the noise about Japan started, that the players hadn't signed, SANZAR called us. But it is impossible. It would mean to get another 10 million dollars that the Argentine Rugby doesn't have, and can't get back from publicity. Because there is a limit to the Argentine market. Also, you don't have the players. You need at least 80 senior players. And in Argentina, they're not there yet. 98% it's a no.
     
  7. stus768

    stus768 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2010
    Messages:
    592
    How many players do they have in the squad? Surely some players will struggle for game time? Interested how they will balance getting youth game time and playing a strong team.

    Also will they continue to put a team in the vodacom cup?
     
  8. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,299
    Location:
    Yurop
    Country Flag:

    Argentina

    Club or Nation:

    CASI

    That interview is priceless. I forgot about it and it reminded me with i have a love/hate reaction when it comes to Pichot

    Here is a gem

    Pichot: "... because the New Zealanders that play sevens are people that will never play for the All Blacks (meaning XV)".

    I couldn't help thinking of Christian Cullen and Lomu.
     
  9. bjarg

    bjarg Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2015
    Messages:
    53
    Country Flag:

    Argentina

    Club or Nation:

    CUBA

    I think there's a lot of people that are getting a little bit carried away by the Pumas current form.
    It is true that they have improved, but I feel things are getting blown out of proportion.
    We are still very much inferior to NZ, AUS, SA, and also (although to a lesser extent) to big NH teams, regardless of what's happening at this specific WC.
    And I say this as an argie myself.
     
  10. petite

    petite Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2012
    Messages:
    671
    Country Flag:

    Argentina

    Club or Nation:

    Argentina

    agree i would say we are getting close to the nh and yes we can snach a few wins against sh nations but it`s a long way still.
    it is still fuzzy how the jaguars gona turn out. for instance if the manage to atract good players to the franchise and not loosing them to the european money
     
  11. Redcatstorm

    Redcatstorm Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2011
    Messages:
    137
    Country Flag:

    Australia

    Club or Nation:

    Reds

    What would be the difference in pay for a player in the Super Rugby Side vs the Euro sides, are international match payments enough to offset the difference.
     
  12. Cruz_del_Sur

    Cruz_del_Sur Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2011
    Messages:
    2,299
    Location:
    Yurop
    Country Flag:

    Argentina

    Club or Nation:

    CASI

    Seconded.
    The key is not just getting there, but being consistent. We are not.
     
  13. Xapi

    Xapi Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2011
    Messages:
    51
    Country Flag:

    Argentina

    Club or Nation:

    Argentina

    For the top players, there is no contest between the pays from what I've read. You can add whatever international matches cash you want, it won't offset a thing.

    Still it seems that UAR have done a very good job of securing a really high percentage of the top talent, specially the young guys who are the future of the Pumas and the SR Franchise.
     
  14. ENZED-88

    ENZED-88 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2014
    Messages:
    311
    Location:
    Sydney
    Country Flag:

    New Zealand

    Club or Nation:

    Auckland

    Or Messam, Jane,Vito actually the list could go on and on...
     
  15. Horacito

    Horacito Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2014
    Messages:
    352
    Country Flag:

    Argentina

    I feel there's something people does not see: there's a difference between you national XV and you country's rugby.

    ¿Argentina could take on any NH team? Sure. This team with Imhoff, Cordero and etc can certainly take over this irish squad, even the first irish XV. Would be favorite? No way. Only the top 3 (AUS ENG SA) is allways favorite against NH sides. Is this Argentina favorite against any of the current NH sides? Sure.

    The main difference between ARG and the rest of top tiers, and I mean almost all of them, is that their rugby is much, much, very very much bigger than ours. Our team could take on England, but our rugby could never compare to theirs. It's so much bigger, so much important, so much better than the rugby we have in Argentina. And the same I say about IRE FRA WAL SCO. It's the rugby you should be proud about, not the selection of the elite 30/ 15 you choose to compete in WC, because rugby is what represents you and those players don't represent you allways.

    Also, this WC is good to ARG to bring in the idea that argentina players are valuable. Until today we had Pichot Contepomi Hernánez, that pack so good at scrums and some other four guys who don't screw up too much. Today, all pumas XV are definitely elite players.

    By the way, the plan was allways 2019 for UAR executives.

    If we only were faster and could steal Cheiks to the aussies before McEnzie resigned...
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
  16. Leg

    Leg Junior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2015
    Messages:
    14
    Country Flag:

    Brazil

    Club or Nation:

    Brazil

    Argentina is a marvel to watch. Offensive, bold.
     
  17. FNS

    FNS Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2015
    Messages:
    528
    Country Flag:

    Argentina

    But now we manage to "simulate" a good league. By having "Super rugby" + "Pladar" + RC we can produce a Pumas XV that be at the same level as the best of the NH and improve the % against the big 3 from SH.

    We will never have a league with 50000+fans every weekend on several stadiums as other teams does but well. I went with my dad in the 90 to "ferro Stadium"(some of you will remember those days) and i saw Ugly one sided matches....now its like watching a movie haha. In 3/4 more years if nothing goes terrible wrong we can be 4th in the rankings regularly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
  18. nightmarehitter

    nightmarehitter Member

    Joined:
    Jul 10, 2010
    Messages:
    80
    Country Flag:

    New Zealand

    I predicted years ago Argentina would become a superpower of the game and I believe they will always be a top 4 team now given their inclusion and being embraced by the Southern Hemisphere teams. Their has just and will to continue to sky rocket. They will never regularly beat the All Blacks, no international team on the planet regulary beats the All Blacks. The closest opponent the ABs have is SA, and even then in modern times while the games have been close the ABs have had a superior win rate.

    I do see Argentina gaining close parity with SA, but as long as politics does not hurt SA rugby any further then they will always hold the no2 position to the All Blacks. Australia will remain to be the greatest tease of all, every 4 years they will get up for a famous win over the ABs then drift back into their rebuilding phase. Thats just how rugby is down here.
     
  19. Canuck

    Canuck Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2014
    Messages:
    105
    Country Flag:

    Canada

    Club or Nation:

    South Africa

    Manuel Montero (1.94m and 105 kg) looked like he was going to be just that kind of back. I think people have forgotten about him a bit, since he's been out for much of this year. I wish him all the best with his rehab and hopefully he can make a full recovery.



     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  20. austingtir

    austingtir Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,711
    Country Flag:

    New Zealand

    ^^ SBW/Nonu will still have a field day with the rest of them though.

    Obviously though if they make it to the final I expect them to tackle their skins off and our bigger backs wont be as effective as they have been previously just the nature of a WC final really.

    Will be very interesting against the Wallabies as if they beat them NZ will see what they did to nullify the Wallaby backline and I seriously doubt the Argentinians can back up twice in a row against two of the best backlines in the world.

    The Argies need to have near total forward dominance to have a real shot.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
  21. ncurd

    ncurd Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2015
    Messages:
    6,141
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Country Flag:

    England

    Club or Nation:

    Bath

    Yup like that point where Ireland got to within 3 points and Garces decided a clear yellow card offense wasn't one because it could result in red card. Yup certainly waited until Ireland couldn't win before he benefitted Argentina.
     
Enjoyed this thread? Register to post your reply - click here!

Share This Page