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Argentina 2019

stus768

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So Argentina lose Ayerza, Galarza, Lobbe and Imhoff next year...that's a real kick in the stones.

Are Figallo and Bosch signed to the new Super Rugby team too, or are they lost also?

Are they definitely not allowed to play if they're not with the franchise?
 

Xapi

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Are they definitely not allowed to play if they're not with the franchise?


At the moment, yes, there will be a ban on players contracted on the Northern Hemisphere leagues (I assume local league players will be eligible)
 

Every Time Ref

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No one should go overboard on just one result ... but this is NOT just about one result! To a lot of people north of the equator, until this WC Argentina were still a big pack with Hernandez and no other skilful backs, a better version of Italy who couldn't mix with the big boys. But they were never underdogs against Ireland, they were always at the very least level pegging; I personally am slightly annoyed with myself for buying into the Irish talk of "strength in depth" rather than backing my original instinct to have them as clear favourites.

I said a long time ago, when there was talk about whether Arg would join the 3N or the 6N, that the best thing for them would be to play in the south but the best thing for us would be to play in Europe. I wish we got to see this team play all of us in the north every year, pushing us to keep up with their back play. Everyone would benefit I think.
 

Chistera

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Same goes for Japan with their own Sunwolves franchise, and Ireland has long proved that having large groups of internationals playing together at club level greatly helps in having a well-oiled clicking national side.
But before 2019, Argentina has to be the favourite, on quarter-finals performance, against Australia and could give the ABs another serious scare in the final, they have a very real chance of winning it.
 

Xapi

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So Argentina lose Ayerza, Galarza, Lobbe and Imhoff next year...that's a real kick in the stones. Albacete already gone.

Are Figallo and Bosch signed to the new Super Rugby team too, or are they lost also?

Of those, Imhoff is the worst loss, Ayerza and Lobbe are due to retire before 2019. Bosch is also not signing.

Interesting link in spanish, will translate some:

http://canchallena.lanacion.com.ar/1820635-agustin-pichot-y-los-pumas

Agustín Pichot, on Aug 20th, 2015

What players are you the most upset about not having in 2016?

Not having the players who are ending their carreers. Bosch, Lobbe, Albacete, Ayerza, players who were part of the last 10 years with the Pumas and are not coming to the franchise for whatever reason. But I understand the reasons. On the other hand, I would have loved to have Imhoff, but Racing made an offer we can't compete with.

After four years, matches are being won more regularily. Isn't it a step back to lose the players from Europe?

We can't make plans based on what people think. Is it a risk to not have those playing in Europe? Yes, it's not the best. But if you don't have the best players, who would play Super Rugby? You can't play a development team against the Sharks. Exceptions create conflict in a team, "Why does he get something and I don't?"

Can't something be done rules-wise to avoid this? Rugby is a kingdom of exceptions.

I like rationality, not exceptions. Because, afterwards, how do you explain it? It would be very unfair to the rest of the players who also resigned money. It is not my desition. Hourcade and his staff made the list. He was very clear, it is in a Board Meeting Record, a budget was assigned, Adrián Vazquez (Head of HR) was signed, and the coaches established the priorities, positions, years of contract, etc.

So, logically, Hourcade will be the Franchise coach

No. Since we didn't have a Franchise coach, we started with the players. This is being talked about in the international teams department. This starts with Hourcade, who is the Head Coach of the National team. He will not coach the franchise. The Coach of the Franchis and the National team can't be the same.

Can he cease to be NAtional Head Coach and go to the Franchise

It's possible, but it's not something that is in the table to my knowledge. The Franchise coaches are not discussed. This week we hire the last player. We decided to wait and see how the coaches develop, how Daniel (Hourcade) took his collaborators, if there was someone who could do it. This will be discussed obviously when the WC is over. Youhave a bad World Cup, you lose to Tonga, is everyone continuing after that? I don't know.

If Japan resign from the SR, can there be a second Argentina team?

No. Financially it would be very complicated for Argentina. The funds wouldn't be there. (...) When the noise about Japan started, that the players hadn't signed, SANZAR called us. But it is impossible. It would mean to get another 10 million dollars that the Argentine Rugby doesn't have, and can't get back from publicity. Because there is a limit to the Argentine market. Also, you don't have the players. You need at least 80 senior players. And in Argentina, they're not there yet. 98% it's a no.
 

stus768

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How many players do they have in the squad? Surely some players will struggle for game time? Interested how they will balance getting youth game time and playing a strong team.

Also will they continue to put a team in the vodacom cup?
 

Cruz_del_Sur

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That interview is priceless. I forgot about it and it reminded me with i have a love/hate reaction when it comes to Pichot

Here is a gem

Pichot: "... because the New Zealanders that play sevens are people that will never play for the All Blacks (meaning XV)".

I couldn't help thinking of Christian Cullen and Lomu.
 

bjarg

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I think there's a lot of people that are getting a little bit carried away by the Pumas current form.
It is true that they have improved, but I feel things are getting blown out of proportion.
We are still very much inferior to NZ, AUS, SA, and also (although to a lesser extent) to big NH teams, regardless of what's happening at this specific WC.
And I say this as an argie myself.
 

petite

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I think there's a lot of people that are getting a little bit carried away by the Pumas current form.
It is true that they have improved, but I feel things are getting blown out of proportion.
We are still very much inferior to NZ, AUS, SA, and also (although to a lesser extent) to big NH teams, regardless of what's happening at this specific WC.
And I say this as an argie myself.

agree i would say we are getting close to the nh and yes we can snach a few wins against sh nations but it`s a long way still.
it is still fuzzy how the jaguars gona turn out. for instance if the manage to atract good players to the franchise and not loosing them to the european money
 

Redcatstorm

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agree i would say we are getting close to the nh and yes we can snach a few wins against sh nations but it`s a long way still.
it is still fuzzy how the jaguars gona turn out. for instance if the manage to atract good players to the franchise and not loosing them to the european money
What would be the difference in pay for a player in the Super Rugby Side vs the Euro sides, are international match payments enough to offset the difference.
 

Cruz_del_Sur

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I think there's a lot of people that are getting a little bit carried away by the Pumas current form.
Seconded.
The key is not just getting there, but being consistent. We are not.
 

Xapi

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What would be the difference in pay for a player in the Super Rugby Side vs the Euro sides, are international match payments enough to offset the difference.

For the top players, there is no contest between the pays from what I've read. You can add whatever international matches cash you want, it won't offset a thing.

Still it seems that UAR have done a very good job of securing a really high percentage of the top talent, specially the young guys who are the future of the Pumas and the SR Franchise.
 

ENZED-88

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That interview is priceless. I forgot about it and it reminded me with i have a love/hate reaction when it comes to Pichot

Here is a gem

Pichot: "... because the New Zealanders that play sevens are people that will never play for the All Blacks (meaning XV)".

I couldn't help thinking of Christian Cullen and Lomu.

Or Messam, Jane,Vito actually the list could go on and on...
 

Horacito

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I feel there's something people does not see: there's a difference between you national XV and you country's rugby.

¿Argentina could take on any NH team? Sure. This team with Imhoff, Cordero and etc can certainly take over this irish squad, even the first irish XV. Would be favorite? No way. Only the top 3 (AUS ENG SA) is allways favorite against NH sides. Is this Argentina favorite against any of the current NH sides? Sure.

The main difference between ARG and the rest of top tiers, and I mean almost all of them, is that their rugby is much, much, very very much bigger than ours. Our team could take on England, but our rugby could never compare to theirs. It's so much bigger, so much important, so much better than the rugby we have in Argentina. And the same I say about IRE FRA WAL SCO. It's the rugby you should be proud about, not the selection of the elite 30/ 15 you choose to compete in WC, because rugby is what represents you and those players don't represent you allways.

Also, this WC is good to ARG to bring in the idea that argentina players are valuable. Until today we had Pichot Contepomi Hernánez, that pack so good at scrums and some other four guys who don't screw up too much. Today, all pumas XV are definitely elite players.

By the way, the plan was allways 2019 for UAR executives.

If we only were faster and could steal Cheiks to the aussies before McEnzie resigned...
 
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Leg

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Argentina is a marvel to watch. Offensive, bold.
 

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I feel there's something people does not see: there's a difference between you national XV and you country's rugby.

¿Argentina could take on any NH team? Sure. This team with Imhoff, Cordero and etc can certainly take over this irish squad, even the first irish XV. Would be favorite? No way. Only the top 3 (AUS ENG SA) is allways favorite against NH sides. Is this Argentina favorite against any of the current NH sides? Sure.

The main difference between ARG and the rest of top tiers, and I mean almost all of them, is that their rugby is much, much, very very much bigger than ours. Our team could take on England, but our rugby could never compare to theirs. It's so much bigger, so much important, so much better than the rugby we have in Argentina. And the same I say about IRE FRA WAL SCO. It's the rugby you should be proud about, not the selection of the elite 30/ 15 you choose to compete in WC, because rugby is what represents you and those players don't represent you allways.

Also, this WC is good to ARG to bring in the idea that argentina players are valuable. Until today we had Pichot Contepomi Hernánez, that pack so good at scrums and some other four guys who don't screw up too much. Today, all pumas XV are definitely elite players.

By the way, the plan was allways 2019 for UAR executives.

If we only were faster and could steal Cheiks to the aussies before McEnzie resigned...

But now we manage to "simulate" a good league. By having "Super rugby" + "Pladar" + RC we can produce a Pumas XV that be at the same level as the best of the NH and improve the % against the big 3 from SH.

We will never have a league with 50000+fans every weekend on several stadiums as other teams does but well. I went with my dad in the 90 to "ferro Stadium"(some of you will remember those days) and i saw Ugly one sided matches....now its like watching a movie haha. In 3/4 more years if nothing goes terrible wrong we can be 4th in the rankings regularly.
 
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nightmarehitter

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I predicted years ago Argentina would become a superpower of the game and I believe they will always be a top 4 team now given their inclusion and being embraced by the Southern Hemisphere teams. Their has just and will to continue to sky rocket. They will never regularly beat the All Blacks, no international team on the planet regulary beats the All Blacks. The closest opponent the ABs have is SA, and even then in modern times while the games have been close the ABs have had a superior win rate.

I do see Argentina gaining close parity with SA, but as long as politics does not hurt SA rugby any further then they will always hold the no2 position to the All Blacks. Australia will remain to be the greatest tease of all, every 4 years they will get up for a famous win over the ABs then drift back into their rebuilding phase. Thats just how rugby is down here.
 

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If they can dig up a couple of bigger/more skilled backs then yeah they are going to be a big handful and could really start dominating. There forward pack has always been good enough.

Manuel Montero (1.94m and 105 kg) looked like he was going to be just that kind of back. I think people have forgotten about him a bit, since he's been out for much of this year. I wish him all the best with his rehab and hopefully he can make a full recovery.


 
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austingtir

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^^ SBW/Nonu will still have a field day with the rest of them though.

Obviously though if they make it to the final I expect them to tackle their skins off and our bigger backs wont be as effective as they have been previously just the nature of a WC final really.

Will be very interesting against the Wallabies as if they beat them NZ will see what they did to nullify the Wallaby backline and I seriously doubt the Argentinians can back up twice in a row against two of the best backlines in the world.

The Argies need to have near total forward dominance to have a real shot.
 
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ncurd

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Yup like that point where Ireland got to within 3 points and Garces decided a clear yellow card offense wasn't one because it could result in red card. Yup certainly waited until Ireland couldn't win before he benefitted Argentina.
 

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