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Australia v France 17/07/21

The_Blindside

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At least Bundee makes a wrap of his arms but still got red for both. At least today's decision was consistent. Players have got to lower their tackle height.

 
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Derpus

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3 pt over a French outfit that met on the plane over. I bet NZ and SA must be losing sleep.
'we didnt even try our best bro'. Did you try your best when you lost the six nations against the might of Scotland? Was that your bestestest team ever? Absolute flogs the lot of you.

Diving in Rugby. Can't believe i have to live in a time when some French flog would defend a loss against 14 men after a dive, a dive in a god damn rugby match, because they 'wernt even trying their hardest'.

Maybe if you start you might win something mate? Maybe if you buy off every single player in the southern hemisphere you can nab fifth behind the British Isles and Ireland.
 
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Cruz_del_Sur

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You are allowed to lead with your shoulder? just have to wrap your arms.

Funny you mention that (i agree, btw). I saw today a rugby journo on twitter with several thousand followers say that leading with the shoulder was illegal. I thought there were joking, but no.
He didn't say shoulder charges were illegal, he said leading with the shoulder was illegal. The overwhelming majority of people seemed to agree.

I don't get it. I really don't get it. Anyone who's played rugby (fallacy, I know) knows you lead with the shoulder whenever possible. That is how kids are taught how to tackle. And the reason is very, very simple: if you lead with the head you will injure yourself sooner rather than later and if you lead with the arm you will miss half the tackles you attempt. Those are the three options you have.
We can argue whether it is high or not, whether there is a wrap or not, etc. But how can we argue at this point whether leading with the shoulder is legal or not? He was saying if you tackle someone at the knee, wrap, nothing goes above horizontal, no til, but if you lead with the shoulder that is illegal.
Madness. You give these lunatics an inch and they'll destroy the game.
 

FrenchFan

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'we didnt even try our best bro'. Did you try your best when you lost the six nations against the might of Scotland? Was that your bestestest team ever? Absolute flogs the lot of you.

Diving in Rugby. Can't believe i have to live in a time when some French flog would defend a loss against 14 men after a dive, a dive in a god damn rugby match, because they 'wernt even trying their hardest'.

Maybe if you start you might win something mate? Maybe if you buy off every single player in the southern hemisphere you can nab fifth behind the British Isles and Ireland.
LOL. Hey you lost your last 2 tests vs Scotland! They put 53 pt on you lot. And Aus has not won the Bled in 19 years ! What a record.

And you come here bleatin about players 'poaching'. what a muppet.
 

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LOL. Hey you lost your last 2 tests vs Scotland! They put 53 pt on you lot. And Aus has not won the Bled in 19 years ! What a record.

And you come here bleatin about players 'poaching'. what a muppet.
That's your comeback to your players being diveball *****es? 'oh my god i can't believe you haven't beaten the undisputed kings of rugby in three consecutive matches.' You're a joke. All you have is money and it may well win you some degraded nonsense in the end, but it will be pathetic. Just like your diving players.
 

FrenchFan

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That's your comeback to your players being diveball *****es? 'oh my god i can't believe you haven't beaten the undisputed kings of rugby in three consecutive matches.' You're a joke. All you have is money and it may well win you some degraded nonsense in the end, but it will be pathetic. Just like your diving players.
i like yours better. Slagging us off for losing to Scotland that clattered your lot twice... Dumbest post of the year. Can't top that.
 

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That's your comeback to your players being diveball *****es? 'oh my god i can't believe you haven't beaten the undisputed kings of rugby in three consecutive matches.' You're a joke. All you have is money and it may well win you some degraded nonsense in the end, but it will be pathetic. Just like your diving players.
From looking at the replay, I dislike the apparent play acting, but I wouldn’t dismiss the French as ‘a joke’ based upon that.

Fair play for winning with 14, but honestly there’s no great triumph in beating France’s third choice XV, let alone an aggressive rant.

You seem to be annoyed that a lot of Australians are choosing to play in the top 14, but have you thought about the fact that there may be more to it than money? I’d argue it’s at least as much to do with the state of the game in Australia. I’m sorry to say that years of mismanagement, a poor club set-up with a terrible record in trans-Tasman competition and an Australian public that doesn’t seem to care about the 15 man code isn’t exactly creating the environment players want to stay for.
 

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LOL. Hey you lost your last 2 tests vs Scotland! They put 53 pt on you lot. And Aus has not won the Bled in 19 years ! What a record.

And you come here bleatin about players 'poaching'. what a muppet.
How many World Cups have France won in 34 years?
 

FrenchFan

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in wendy ball we've won two. You guys have been blathering on about diving so i thought i'd say on topic. Join a wendy ball forum. You'll fit right in.
 

BPM

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How many World Cups have France won in 34 years?
As an England fan, I’d treat both as rivals so to give a neutral perspective, I think rugby in Australia and rugby in France are going in opposite directions.

Australia haven’t won a World Cup in 22yrs so those wins are becoming less and less relevant. In England, people still talk about 2003, but that does successive sides no favours. The game is so different now.

Unless there’s a crazy level of improvement between now and 2023, I don’t see Australia adding to their two any time soon. Maybe in 6yrs but certainly not in 2 and even then, that looks somewhat unlikely given the declining popularity of rugby in Australia. Rennie is bringing through a promising group of players, but whether they’ll make it at the highest level remains to be seen and there isn’t a sizeable talent pool to continue to draw from in a weak/uncertain domestic competition

In comparison, France have a genuinely outstanding crop of young players led by a couple of top class halfbacks in Dupont and Ntamack. They will be very well placed to challenge in a home World Cup in 2023. If that’s too soon, they have a conveyor belt of talent coming through and rugby has massively turned a corner in France in recent times. The success of their club sides (yes, money plays a big part) at European level and a very good domestic league will continue to feed that.

To put it another way, I think France have a very good chance of winning a World Cup on home soil and I think they’re clearly on an upward trajectory. I wouldn’t say it’s likely, but it’s definitely not inconceivable that they could match Australia’s 2 World Cup wins in the next 10yrs. Sadly it looks Australia are going in a the opposite direction. IMO Rennie’s doing as good a job as could be expected in trying to arrest the slide, but he can only work with what he has and is hamstrung by a lot of the external factors I mentioned in my previous post.
 

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As an England fan, I’d treat both as rivals so to give a neutral perspective, I think rugby in Australia and rugby in France are going in opposite directions.

Australia haven’t won a World Cup in 22yrs so those wins are becoming less and less relevant. In England, people still talk about 2003, but that does successive sides no favours. The game is so different now.

Unless there’s a crazy level of improvement between now and 2023, I don’t see Australia adding to their two any time soon. Maybe in 6yrs but certainly not in 2 and even then, that looks somewhat unlikely given the declining popularity of rugby in Australia. Rennie is bringing through a promising group of players, but whether they’ll make it at the highest level remains to be seen and there isn’t a sizeable talent pool to continue to draw from in a weak/uncertain domestic competition

In comparison, France have a genuinely outstanding crop of young players led by a couple of top class halfbacks in Dupont and Ntamack. They will be very well placed to challenge in a home World Cup in 2023. If that’s too soon, they have a conveyor belt of talent coming through and rugby has massively turned a corner in France in recent times. The success of their club sides (yes, money plays a big part) at European level and a very good domestic league will continue to feed that.

To put it another way, I think France have a very good chance of winning a World Cup on home soil and I think they’re clearly on an upward trajectory. I wouldn’t say it’s likely, but it’s definitely not inconceivable that they could match Australia’s 2 World Cup wins in the next 10yrs. Sadly it looks Australia are going in a the opposite direction. IMO Rennie’s doing as good a job as could be expected in trying to arrest the slide, but he can only work with what he has and is hamstrung by a lot of the external factors I mentioned in my previous post.
100%. Europe are putting the sort of money we can only dream of into Rugby. No one, not even the All Blacks, can fight the tide. South African and Australian depth has been decimated, local comps destroyed (not to mention the other issues with South Africa). We've even accelerated the process through terrible management.

Hell rugby here can't even compete domestically. A single NRL team basically has the same budget as RA.

Eventually France may well win a RWC but by that point they will realistically only be competing against a handful of countries.

My general premise wasn't that Australia are better than France or have a better chance at winning a RWC. We have no chance of that. I generally think that the French hype is hugely overblown and they would be put to the sword by a quality All Black or South African side.
 
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BPM

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OK cool, but your earlier post suggested that you were basing most of that on the French touring side you’ve just seen which bears almost no relation to their first choice 23.

I think SA’s reputation is pretty ‘overblown’ given they haven’t played in 2yrs (unless you count the A team outing that was more or less their test side). I’d prefer to reserve judgement until the Lions tests. I expect SA to be competitive but not the dominant team they seem to think they are. NZ walloping depleted Tonga and Fiji teams doesn’t really tell us anything … this years’ Rugby Championship will be much more informative on both NZ and SA.

France’s biggest problem is their potential for an implosion or indiscipline. Arguably dumb red cards have cost them two grand slams in recent years. If they can address those, they have the quality of players to beat NZ or SA and are definitely capable of winning the World Cup.
 

Derpus

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OK cool, but your earlier post suggested that you were basing most of that on the French touring side you’ve just seen which bears almost no relation to their first choice 23.

I think SA’s reputation is pretty ‘overblown’ given they haven’t played in 2yrs (unless you count the A team outing that was more or less their test side). I’d prefer to reserve judgement until the Lions tests. I expect SA to be competitive but not the dominant team they seem to think they are. NZ walloping depleted Tonga and Fiji teams doesn’t really tell us anything … this years’ Rugby Championship will be much more informative on both NZ and SA.

France’s biggest problem is their potential for an implosion or indiscipline. Arguably dumb red cards have cost them two grand slams in recent years. If they can address those, they have the quality of players to beat NZ or SA and are definitely capable of winning the World Cup.
I was calling them out for defending their failure by saying 'hey we weren't even trying our best', despite the fact that even when they do deign to select a full strength side they achieve fuckall.

When are they ever even allowed to select their 'best 23'? Seems like theres always some reason they arent allowed to.

South Africa will beat the Lions i think. But, like the rest of us, they've been absolutely gutted.
 

BPM

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Well they do usually turn up to the 6N and World Cup with their full side available.

When it comes to being ‘absolutely gutted’, some of it is money, but there are lots of factors that play in to it and it entirely depends on the individual players. Some want to make as much money as possible and others are more circumstantial. Take Liam Gill for example. IIRC, he left because he pretty much knew Pocock and Hooper would keeep him out of the test side which meant there was little for him to stay for.

English players know full well that they could make a lot more money in France or Japan but they also know that it would end their test career. The rules are different with central contacts etc. but in practice it’s the same for the Irish and Welsh. IMO, Giteau’s Law has screwed you over way more than the lure of a French money. It might have been OK when you had a pool of very experienced players, but now you’re in a rebuild it creates a situation where there’s a stark choice between playing for the Wallabies and staying at second rate sides that can’t compete with anyone other than themselves or have a better playing career and more money overseas.

When it comes to ‘poaching’, I’m really not sure why Japan escape criticism. France very rarely import players with the intention of naturalising them, but Japan are pretty much doing that wherever they can. They’ve actively made themselves the destination for Tongans in particular and then will happily hoover up any uncapped Aussies, Kiwis or South Africans and pick them when they can. It seems that their status as a growing power is allowing them to behave in ways that other more established nations would (rightly) be pilloried for.
 

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As an England fan, I’d treat both as rivals so to give a neutral perspective, I think rugby in Australia and rugby in France are going in opposite directions.

Australia haven’t won a World Cup in 22yrs so those wins are becoming less and less relevant. In England, people still talk about 2003, but that does successive sides no favours. The game is so different now.

Unless there’s a crazy level of improvement between now and 2023, I don’t see Australia adding to their two any time soon. Maybe in 6yrs but certainly not in 2 and even then, that looks somewhat unlikely given the declining popularity of rugby in Australia. Rennie is bringing through a promising group of players, but whether they’ll make it at the highest level remains to be seen and there isn’t a sizeable talent pool to continue to draw from in a weak/uncertain domestic competition

In comparison, France have a genuinely outstanding crop of young players led by a couple of top class halfbacks in Dupont and Ntamack. They will be very well placed to challenge in a home World Cup in 2023. If that’s too soon, they have a conveyor belt of talent coming through and rugby has massively turned a corner in France in recent times. The success of their club sides (yes, money plays a big part) at European level and a very good domestic league will continue to feed that.

To put it another way, I think France have a very good chance of winning a World Cup on home soil and I think they’re clearly on an upward trajectory. I wouldn’t say it’s likely, but it’s definitely not inconceivable that they could match Australia’s 2 World Cup wins in the next 10yrs. Sadly it looks Australia are going in a the opposite direction. IMO Rennie’s doing as good a job as could be expected in trying to arrest the slide, but he can only work with what he has and is hamstrung by a lot of the external factors I mentioned in my previous post.
I've been backing the French Side to win the next world cup for the past 2 years. This tour they were missing around 22 starters. Australian rugby is in its death throws.

But I also don't count world cups they haven't won yet.
 

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The point is that there was a significant drop, which as per the rules constitutes mitigation.

The ref said 'there was no significant drop'. I cannot comprehend how they can claim that. It is simply not true. This is hardly a matter of interpretation. The images speak loud and clear
The ref, ar and TMO all claimed that something didn't happen when images show it did.

From the time blue got the ball to the time he got tackled his head was 30-40 cm lower.

I am not even going into the head or shoulder first. That's a millimetre thing, (nearly) impossible to determine with those angles. I can understand that mistake from the ref. I cannot understand how all of them miss blue going down. I'm sure they know what to look for and the short list is not that long.
I would say the word “significant” would of course make it a matter of interpretation.
 

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