Australia vs England - 3 Tests - June 2016

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I don't think Brown should be dropped, however if I had to put Nowell or Watson at fullback I'd go for Watson. Nowell hasn't consistently played FB since U20s, Watson plays there every week, and has played there before for England. Next season I want to see Nowell take Dollman's place at 15 for Chiefs and then play FB for England, with Watson back on the wing.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Wales releasing their team to face the Crusaders got me thinking, what team would you put out if England were facing a Super Rugby franchise? (From the squad available)

 

[McTallshort]

Wales releasing their team to face the Crusaders got me thinking, what team would you put out if England were facing a Super Rugby franchise? (From the squad available)

The one currently touring South Africa

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Bajaysus. Telegraph reporting that George Ford made the second most tackles of any player yesterday with 9 (behind the Hask with 18), more than Pocock, Hooper, etc. Almost certainly due to deliberate targeting, and I doubt he made more than a couple alone, but still surprising. Anybody remember him missing any?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Would do assuming we take 35/36 instead of 32
1) Genge
2) George
3) Sinkler
4) Lawes
5) Attwood *
6) Harrison
7) Kvesic
8) Clifford
9) Robson *
10) Slade
11) Roko *
12) T'eo
13) Daly
14) Yarde/Nowell (Which ever isn't going to start in the next test)
15) Goode

16) Cowan-dickie
17) Mullan
18) Hill
19) Launchbury
20) Robshaw
21) Care
22) Burrell (Daly would have tot cover 10 though)
23) Haley *

Replace in the Saxons with
Attwood -> Slater/Barrow
Robson -> Harrison/Cook
Roko -> Addison
Haley -> Hammersley

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Bajaysus. Telegraph reporting that George Ford made the second most tackles of any player yesterday with 9 (behind the Hask with 18), more than Pocock, Hooper, etc. Almost certainly due to deliberate targeting, and I doubt he made more than a couple alone, but still surprising. Anybody remember him missing any?

And he was only on for 50 mins. That's a stat back rowers could be proud of. Well done Fordy.

 

[ncurd]

George rarely misses tackles hes just not that effective and gives up yards a fair bit. The idea he's a turnstile is simply not true never really has been.

I think a little too much is made of his defence sure he's no Wilkinson chopping down tree trunks but he's adequate enough.

 

[Peat]

The worry over Ford's defence is that he usually needs another man to help him and that shortens the defensive line a bit. The Kuridrani try was a prime example of how a flanker having to finish a half-back's tackle (Care in this case) creates tries.

Nobody makes linebreaks through Ford but you can bend it quite usefully by running at him. Its possible his team mates don't trust him that much as twice the man outside bit in on a man Ford had and created a gap for the opposition (although its possible they were just being dumb).

I used to worry a lot about this but now I accept it as the price of doing business. I would rather have the best runner of the game on and have to hide him from time to time, then have a lesser runner of the game just because he makes most of his 1 on 1 tackles. Maybe a messiah will emerge who runs a game like Ford and tackles like Farrell (and makes defensive decisions like Ford) but the idea I had that one would is, in retrospect, utterly foolish.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

George rarely misses tackles hes just not that effective and gives up yards a fair bit. The idea he's a turnstile is simply not true never really has been.

I think a little too much is made of his defence sure he's no Wilkinson chopping down tree trunks but he's adequate enough.

I think people look at the time he got bowled over by Nathan Hughes and have assumed that just because he once got run over by a Fijian 8 with a good 30-35 kg on him, that he can't tackle. Despite this, people still praise Farrell's defence despite him being bumped off by the much smaller Teimana Harrison.

 

[Zed]

Joke or not, us union fans are a dying species out here. The game scored a little over half the ratings of your average Friday night AFL or NRL CLUB match here and they couldn't even sell it out with a crowd that appeared about 50% English.

Cheik is doing his best, but the game is in serious trouble here.

NRL isn't exactly flying along. Lowest spectator numbers in 10 years. I went to a roosters/Penrith match last season and they barely had 9000 people.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Are we expecting a Te'o appearance next week, now?
I presume we're going with Ford and Faz as first choice 10/12 (say what you want about them in theory/on paper but I'd say they're a proven winning partnership at this point).
So Te'o in the 22 shirt? Presumably on for Ford at some point, with Faz back to 10.

I said, during the first test, that I was surprised that Burrell got the nod at 12 considering the game they were asking him to play - suited Te'o's physicality/playing style much more.

 

[Peat]

Burrell only got the nod because Te'o missed some training days due to an injury.

We might see him on the bench but, honestly, I'm not sure I want to see Ford-Faz taken off at any point unless we're cruising at this juncture. Their two boots are too important. Te'o can play 13, so having him on the bench isn't completely pointless, but given Joseph's our best defender... tricky. I guess there's worse problems than a midfield who've made themselves undroppable, even if they are flawed.

I'm half expecting a 6-2 bench split tbh. Not sure I'd agree with it, but Jones has a lot more use for sub forwards than sub backs.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

A 6-2 bench isn't a ridiculous idea to be honest, especially if the extra forward is Clifford. Considering his 7s background I'd back him to do a job in the backs in an emergency - I'd be slightly surprised if he'd never played there as a kid

 

[Jaguares]

It's upsetting when you think that rugby Union is rapidly declining in 2 of the greatest rugby nations (Aus and SA). Makes you wonder what the future holds for the sport.

What's the problem in SA? The quotas?

 

[Peat]

A 6-2 bench isn't a ridiculous idea to be honest, especially if the extra forward is Clifford. Considering his 7s background I'd back him to do a job in the backs in an emergency - I'd be slightly surprised if he'd never played there as a kid

Started as a centre but hasn't played there since he was 13. I'd be a bit wary of trusting him, but he is at least quick enough of foot, if not maybe of thought and reaction.

 

[Jaguares]

NRL isn't exactly flying along. Lowest spectator numbers in 10 years. I went to a roosters/Penrith match last season and they barely had 9000 people.

I'm not sure about it. Perhaps the AFL dominates at country level but in traditional rugby states like NSW and QLD, League is growing more than Union:

http://www.nrl.com/history-happens-as-clubs-hit-10000-mark/tabid/10874/newsid/97921/default.aspx

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Started as a centre but hasn't played there since he was 13. I'd be a bit wary of trusting him, but he is at least quick enough of foot, if not maybe of thought and reaction.

I'd feel comfortable sticking him on the wing in an injury crisis. A 6-2 split is a good idea seeing as you've got Ford and Faz on. I think you'd have to go for Daly as the 23 then though, so that you've still got most positions covered (11-15)

 

[curtbob7]

Would do assuming we take 35/36 instead of 32
1) Genge
2) George
3) Sinkler
4) Lawes
5) Attwood *
6) Harrison
7) Kvesic
8) Clifford
9) Robson *
10) Slade
11) Roko *
12) T'eo
13) Daly
14) Yarde/Nowell (Which ever isn't going to start in the next test)
15) Goode

16) Cowan-dickie
17) Mullan
18) Hill
19) Launchbury
20) Robshaw
21) Care
22) Burrell (Daly would have tot cover 10 though)
23) Haley *

Replace in the Saxons with
Attwood -> Slater/Barrow
Robson -> Harrison/Cook
Roko -> Addison
Haley -> Hammersley

Your obsession with Sam Harrison is scary. The guy can zip it but other than that he's pretty poor.

 

[Mumbles119]

After some more reflection, I still think the bench and the ability to adapt will be key for success in this next test.

I think we can carry a combination of Mako/Genge. Like Mako, Mullan was not a tower of strength either in the scrums on Saturday. Genge certainly has the strength needed to hold his own and brings more than the other two both showed in their performance on Saturday.

However this same critique and decision needs to also be applied to Cole. Dan Cole was ok in scrums, a little lucky with Poite, and again very ineffectual in the loose or ruck. Hill is already on the bench, but if not Cole who else?

And if this argument is about the need to change up both Loose and Tight props to potentially more effective players, should both be changed at the same time, or which is more important to change up first?

1. Mako Vunipola
2. Dylan Hartley
3. Dan Cole
4. Maro Itoje
5. George Kruis
6. Chris Robshaw
7. James Haskell
8. Billy Vunipola
9. Ben Youngs (oh how I wish for Robson)
10. George Ford
11. Marland Yarde
12. Owen Farrell
13. Jonathon Joseph
14. Anthony Watson
15. Jack Nowell

16. Jamie George
17. Ellis Genge
18. Paul Hill
19. Joe Launchbury
20. Jack Clifford
21. Danny Care
22. Henry Slade
23. Ben T'eo

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Your obsession with Sam Harrison is scary. The guy can zip it but other than that he's pretty poor.

Guess you don't watch many Leicester games then esp last season.

And since when was being a excellent passer from the breakdown a bad thing?
Yes he isn't Youngs at running or boxkicking but I'm not saying he is an international am I or that he should be in the England squad, but looking at the other options he would be a good pick for Saxons.