Australia vs England (3rd Test) - 16/07/22

[TRF_Olyy]

10:55/19:55, 16/07/2022
Sydney Cricket Ground
Referee: Paul Williams​

 

[Welsh Exile]

Hard to call any of the games this weekend with any real confidence which is great and not what I was expecting. I fancy England to just about get the job done but should be a tight game. I expect all games to be close.

 

[Geordie]

If England can give Chessum, Willis, JVP etc a start and even in defeat run them close, then we'll benefit.

Getting those types of players crucial gametime against the best is vital.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

For me it's gameplan, whatever that may be I don't care as long as they have one and it's executed by all the players. I want us to look like a team on the same page. As long as that's the case we are making progress really.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I feel a bit more confident about this than last week - running a bit thin in some positions but still have enough to put out a strong side, just can't afford anyone pulling up in the captains run again

As above: I want a strong performance more than I want a result (though obv a result would be nice)

 

[Welsh Exile]

I feel a bit more confident about this than last week - running a bit thin in some positions but still have enough to put out a strong side, just can't afford anyone pulling up in the captains run again

As above: I want a strong performance more than I want a result (though obv a result would be nice)

I think if I was in your shoes I'd feel similar but would perhaps put a bit more emphasis on getting the series win now you're in the position to do so.

Going into the SA series I just wanted some performances (which we've got in terms of guts and commitment but not really anything else) but now I would bite your hand off for a 3-0 win on Saturday.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think we will be quick out the blocks again but Jones needs to address how England tend to rapidly fall off after the first quarter of the game. He also needs to drop his idiotic habit of not using subs in their full capacity. I'd he doesn't trust them, they shouldn't be on the bench at all.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think if I was in your shoes I'd feel similar but would perhaps put a bit more emphasis on getting the series win now you're in the position to do so.

Going into the SA series I just wanted some performances (which we've got in terms of guts and commitment but not really anything else) but now I would bite your hand off for a 3-0 win on Saturday.

There is a massive difference though between a win due to tactics and executing a plan etc (whatever that plan may be ) and winning due to Australia having players carded or a single charge down try etc. I'm not sure I'm articulating it well enough but if we win due to Australia's missed kicks or them being down to 14 men (lol) then we won't have actually improved.

 

[Welsh Exile]

There is a massive difference though between a win due to tactics and executing a plan etc (whatever that plan may be ) and winning due to Australia having players carded or a single charge down try etc. I'm not sure I'm articulating it well enough but if we win due to Australia's missed kicks or them being down to 14 men (lol) then we won't have actually improved.

Yeah I take your point and agree. Ideally you want a bit of both I suppose but considering your very good record against Australia you want to win the series.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

With my poshest and finest Arrogant English at on: A tour win down under doesn't mean enough to outweigh winning while playing terribly,
I don't want EJ to have an excuse to paper over cracks again

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I just want Nowell to outplay Hooper at 7.

 

[Crash Hamster]

I felt things were starting to click a little in the last Test.

Previously, it looked like the wrong selections, playing in the wrong positions to the wrong gameplan.

Now, honestly more by luck than judgment, it looks like mostly the right players playing in mostly the right positions. The gameplan is still a little 'team is less than the sum of its parts', but it's an improvement.

England are still frequently incapable of taking advantage of an overlap and this has to be a management problem as we see some phenomenal attacking play in the Premiership. Yes, Test rugby is a step up, but 'passing to the bloke outside you who has an unopposed run in' is the same competency at every level.

It would be nice to see a proper 'wheels' winger picked; I'm pretty sure LRZ wasn't the greatest defensive player at first, but Wales backed him and now he's scoring for fun and much improved in the less glamorous aspects of wing play.

It would be nice to see a little more of a 'score one more than you' attitude. England have a variety of talented players who seem unable (or are not allowed) to express that in international games.

Summary: three years of dross, accidental selection of a team which could have been developed 18 months to 2 years ago, signs of improvement, can it last or has the extension to Jones' contract been a monumental error?

 

[Scotty]

It would be nice to see a proper 'wheels' winger picked; I'm pretty sure LRZ wasn't the greatest defensive player at first, but Wales backed him and now he's scoring for fun and much improved in the less glamorous aspects of wing play.

Just think May when he first started...he was quick but had to work and work on his all round game and got to one of the first names on the teamsheet.

But the only one that fits the bill for pace winger atm is Arundell and i wouldnt have him started, he needs real game time from the bench and seems a waste to start May over Freeman if Mays fit again.

If we have another broken player in the back row though we might end up with the never seen 4:4 bench with Nowell at 20, i joke but i wouldnt put it past EJ. Then may starts i bet.

I want a good performance to build on but i also really want to win this in Aus, get this team some confidence back that what they are doing is in the right direction. As they have the AI and 6N before the WC and thats it.

 

[BrokenWing]

He also needs to drop his idiotic habit of not using subs in their full capacity. I'd he doesn't trust them, they shouldn't be on the bench at all.

Didn't I read before that he wanted them to get used to playing when they're fatigued? Could that be to do with him not using the subs?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

England are still frequently incapable of taking advantage of an overlap and this has to be a management problem as we see some phenomenal attacking play in the Premiership. Yes, Test rugby is a step up, but 'passing to the bloke outside you who has an unopposed run in' is the same competency at every level.

You see a fair number butchered at club level too. And test rugby is a big step up with less time to think and mistakes magnified.

While I'm generally happy to blame Jones for everything from global warming to inflation, I can't do anything but lay the blame for this sort of thing squarely at the players.

I highlighted yesterday where I thought the knock down overlap was blown with Smith choosing possibly only the 3rd best option (and executing badly) and Steward, particularly, and Freeman both taking sub optimal positions. Basic stuff.

Blame the coaches for lack of game plan / organisation, but execution is totally down to the players.

Hate it when I come over all fair.

 

[Crash Hamster]

You see a fair number butchered at club level too. And test rugby is a big step up with less time to think and mistakes magnified.

While I'm generally happy to blame Jones for everything from global warming to inflation, I can't do anything but lay the blame for this sort of thing squarely at the players.

I highlighted yesterday where I thought the knock down overlap was blown with Smith choosing possibly only the 3rd best option (and executing badly) and Steward, particularly, and Freeman both taking sub optimal positions. Basic stuff.

Blame the coaches for lack of game plan / organisation, but execution is totally down to the players.

Hate it when I come over all fair.

The thing is, it's not an isolated incident, it's been noticeable for a few years now. Players who convert these chances at club level (you can't say Smith hasn't been instrumental in Quins scoring a shedload of tries) are bombing them for England.

Almost everyone, across the whole backline, has failed to see the (often several man) overlap outside them where there's no cover at some point in the recent past. I disagree that they're any harder to put away, too; I don't mean the 'requires a brilliant flick pass' stuff, just the 'run straight and give it off your dominant hand' stuff.

I'm still blaming Jones and I think you must be letting the heat get to you

 

[Nudger]

It's not easy to win in oz england played 22 tests won 7 4 of which by jones
Any win will do

 

[BPM]

I felt things were starting to click a little in the last Test.

Previously, it looked like the wrong selections, playing in the wrong positions to the wrong gameplan.

Now, honestly more by luck than judgment, it looks like mostly the right players playing in mostly the right positions. The gameplan is still a little 'team is less than the sum of its parts', but it's an improvement.

England are still frequently incapable of taking advantage of an overlap and this has to be a management problem as we see some phenomenal attacking play in the Premiership. Yes, Test rugby is a step up, but 'passing to the bloke outside you who has an unopposed run in' is the same competency at every level.

It would be nice to see a proper 'wheels' winger picked; I'm pretty sure LRZ wasn't the greatest defensive player at first, but Wales backed him and now he's scoring for fun and much improved in the less glamorous aspects of wing play.

It would be nice to see a little more of a 'score one more than you' attitude. England have a variety of talented players who seem unable (or are not allowed) to express that in international games.

Summary: three years of dross, accidental selection of a team which could have been developed 18 months to 2 years ago, signs of improvement, can it last or has the extension to Jones' contract been a monumental error?

I agree with your opening sentence and the frustration on the lack of finishing. I also agree that the contract extension may well prove to be a 'monumental error'.

However, I'm not sure on the factual accuracy of whether this team 'could have been developed 18mths to 2yrs ago'.

Let's rewind 18-24mths. Of the starting XV last weekend, with the exception of Hill and Stuart (who were in the squad but not starting), the rest of the pack were regular or at least pretty regular starters for England. In the backs, JvP and Freeman had barely played a game for their clubs, Steward hadn't played many more and no-one had heard of Porter. Also, even as a massive fan of Marcus Smith, he wasn't ready to start for England then. On current form, you could argue he still isn't. Bench wise, Chessum and Arundell have only just broken through and being brutally honest, Will Joseph hasn't even done that. In short, there's no realistic way you could have picked this side back then.

 

[BPM]

The lineout could be interesting this weekend.

I see Australia have called Salakaia-Loto in to the squad, but I'd be a little surprised if he starts at the weekend given his limited time in camp. That probably means a fairly even contest on paper between rookies Chessum and Frost (both likely to be making their first starts) with Hill and Phillip who are not particularly experienced at test level.

England were struggling last week and Phillip was doing an excellent job of disrupting or stealing our lineout ball. He's still there, but I wonder if their roles will change given Frost is the lighter and more athletic of the two Aussie locks?

Chessum is a fair bit taller than Itoje so that may help, but I wouldn't totally rule out a surprise start for for Isiekwe in an effort to counter the Aussie jumpers (he is probably one of the better lineout operators in the Premiership)?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The lineout could be interesting this weekend.

I see Australia have called Salakaia-Loto in to the squad, but I'd be a little surprised if he starts at the weekend given his limited time in camp. That probably means a fairly even contest on paper between rookies Chessum and Frost (both likely to be making their first starts) with Hill and Phillip who are not particularly experienced at test level.

England were struggling last week and Phillip was doing an excellent job of disrupting or stealing our lineout ball. He's still there, but I wonder if their roles will change given Frost is the lighter and more athletic of the two Aussie locks?

Chessum is a fair bit taller than Itoje so that may help, but I wouldn't totally rule out a surprise start for for Isiekwe in an effort to counter the Aussie jumpers (he is probably one of the better lineout operators in the Premiership)?

I'd say Isiekwe is probably one of the best operators in the air full stop including attacking opposition line outs and at restarts.