Ban the haka ?

[Big Ewis]

I know, I know. But I still feel the need to ask.
- No offense to Maori culture itself, that's hardly the point - or NZers as a whole.
- Not the most interesting or original thread ever - *granted* !

But all that good stuff is out of the way now, to the ones who don't like the haka and want to speak up, I'm just wondering:
would you agree with me that it possibly should be banned at some point, though I understand it's been going on for a while and may be too late to stop ?

I've heard the pro-haka arguments a lot, and they're just not enough to keep it. Unless there's a good point you think I may have looked past or not understood ?
but stuff like "oh it's part of the culture" is not an argument, I hope ppl see that. Red wine is part of french culture.....interesting fact, isn't it ? yeh...

I do understand of course it's part of the whole folklore, the whole theatrics of rugby and all...but, well, I've got my arguments I'm just waiting for yours first.

 

[j'nuh]

Would you want to ban national anthems?

btw, you can't just dismiss that it being part of the culture is not an argument. There is no other argument for the haka. You're dismissing the counter-argument at base one, before hearing any justification.

Traditions are acceptable as long as they aren't harmful. If the haka got in the way of the game, for example, then that would be a problem. If it was a tradition for a haka to happen before a scrum and that were to slow the game down, then it would be removed. But the use of the haka before a game isn't harming anyone, and it's a spectacle. So why remove it? What's so bad about keeping it?

 

[Peat]

Unless there is an overwhelming reason to ban something, nothing should be banned. I see no overwhelming reason to ban the Haka.

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

Yeah there's no reason TOO ban it... As far as I know everyone enjoys it - even opposition teams.

 

[SelimNiai]

The Haka (and the Tongan, Samoan and Fijian pre match rituals) are as key and integrated into rugby as the ball itself.

This idea/suggestion is so retarded I thought sigesige had comeback again.

 

[InsaneAsylum]

Leave the hakas alone, they're a cool part of the game. I would actually love to Australia embrace an Aboriginal war dance.

 

[Draggs]

Never like how precious people are about it. No advancing, no blinking, no showing of the teeth.

 

[FlukeArtist]

Never like how precious people are about it. No advancing, no blinking, no showing of the teeth.

You can do what you like Draggs.
Just look at David Campese. he used to go down into the 22 and kick the ball around

 

[smartcooky]

I know, I know. But I still feel the need to ask.
- No offense to Maori culture itself, that's hardly the point - or NZers as a whole.
- Not the most interesting or original thread ever - *granted* !

But all that good stuff is out of the way now, to the ones who don't like the haka and want to speak up, I'm just wondering:
would you agree with me that it possibly should be banned at some point, though I understand it's been going on for a while and may be too late to stop ?

I've heard the pro-haka arguments a lot, and they're just not enough to keep it. Unless there's a good point you think I may have looked past or not understood ?
but stuff like "oh it's part of the culture" is not an argument, I hope ppl see that. Red wine is part of french culture.....interesting fact, isn't it ? yeh...

I do understand of course it's part of the whole folklore, the whole theatrics of rugby and all...but, well, I've got my arguments I'm just waiting for yours first.

While we're at it, why don't we ban French arrogance?

What the Frenchman in the room fails to understand is that the Haka is about US, and we choose to share it with others. If they don't want us to share it, they have that choice. We have already amply demonstrated that in 2006, when, after Welsh rugby officials wanted to mess around with the order of things, the All Blacks just said, "stuff you, we'll do it in the changing rooms", so they did...

http://www.espnscrum.com/onthisday/rugby/story/106276.html

Then they came out and absolutely botty-smacked the Welsh, stuffing them 45-10 (just to show that there were no hard feelings)

 

[j'nuh]

If there's anything they should ban, it's when countries take it in turns to do their war dance. As if tribes at war used to go, "Jolly good, our turn now."

Much better when they face each other off, doing it at the same time, getting closer and closer, cameras cutting from one group to the other.

Still think England should introduce morris dancing as their equivalent. I nominate this:

 

[Draggs]

You can do what you like Draggs.
Just look at David Campese. he used to go down into the 22 and kick the ball around

That's just cheeky.
My favourite was was we did in 2008, just stood our ground (look how that worked out...).
FWIW I think advancing adds a bit more to it, both sides up for it.

Also, I would like it done after the NZ anthem, just so that we can have our own response without another dance.

 

[smartcooky]

Never like how precious people are about it. No advancing, no blinking, no showing of the teeth.

Actually the iRB (and some ignorant members of the media) are the ones who are being precious.

If you speak to any Kaumātua about Haka, they will tell you that how the challenger performs Haka speaks about him, and how the challenged respond to it, speaks about them.

When the French formed the "arrow", and when the Welsh did the "stare", and when the English and the Irish advanced on the Haka, these actions were not taken as marks of disrespect, they are accepted as how whose teams chose to respond to the challenge. Those actions perfectly acceptable to Maori, because they were what is expected.

People outside of this country see Haka as synonymous with the All Blacks but it is NOT how it is perceived here. Kamate and Kapa-o-Pango are just two of hundreds of different Haka. Just about every high-school has its own and they are routinely performed by their sports teams and students alike...



... this will give people some idea about how Haka is not not just about the All Blacks; its a lot more powerful than that!!

 

[Draggs]

Oh, I am fully aware of the importance of the haka and how unique it is.
I'd like the IRB to fix the scrum first, rather than mess about with the haka, et al.
Didn't the IRB want to ban Waltzing Matilda at the 2003 RWC? I mean, it isn't a war dance, but certainly part of Aussie rugby culture.
How about Men of Harlech back at the AIGs/Samoa/Fiji/Tonga? (Have to try and beat them after though... ugh)

 

[lynam1104]

I wish the IRB would stop being pricks and allow teams to respond it adds so much more intensity to the game from both sides.

 

[Jaguares]

The haka is what most represents our sport, every year we have new rugby fans thanks to traditions of our sport as the haka. It's something that catches the attention of both the fans and the people outside the rugby.

Long live haka!

 

[nickdnz]

Oh, I am fully aware of the importance of the haka and how unique it is.
I'd like the IRB to fix the scrum first, rather than mess about with the haka, et al.
Didn't the IRB want to ban Waltzing Matilda at the 2003 RWC? I mean, it isn't a war dance, but certainly part of Aussie rugby culture.
How about Men of Harlech back at the AIGs/Samoa/Fiji/Tonga? (Have to try and beat them after though... ugh)

How do you make that joke seem so fresh every time?

 

[InsaneAsylum]

If you drop a fern leaf at the feet of the All Blacks just as they are about to perform the haka, do they let you win?

 

[nickdnz]

If you drop a fern leaf at the feet of the All Blacks just as they are about to perform the haka, do they let you win?

No, but they award you safe passage back to the changing room.

 

[Draggs]

How do you make that joke seem so fresh every time?

I got skillz.

Also no other joke.



Help.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

As I understand it the Kiwi's would just do a haka in private then. If that's what the host team wants then fine but I for one as a spectator/TV viewer would rather see it out in the open with our brave men facing it dow and I think most feel the same and their unions (and more importantly the broadcasters) know that. It's a totally harmless tradition that only serves to bring some flavour into the game; one might as well say; "change the shape of the ball to spherical!"; it's just what rugby is- part of the character and these traditions make Rugby a richer game for it IMO.