Bath 2017/2018

[Ragey Erasmus]

Hopefully with a full pre-season to prepare Blackadder can get Bath playing better going into this season.

Obviously most interested to see how Underhill and the breakdown as a whole function, I felt Bath have been to slow to the breakdown for 2 seasons now and this might change it. Still feel letting Fearns go really hurt Bath but the past is the past.

 

[Every Time Ref]

At last after 3 years on this godforsaken site the only thread that matters has finally been started.

Obviously Underhill is prob the main point of interest for Bath and non-Bath alike, but in other breakdown news, Francois hasn't made the SA squad so will be available at the start of the season and possibly the Autumn internationals. Agree the breakdown has been a weakness for a while, in attack and defence. I'd like to see a bit more aggression in defence as well, it was pretty solid all season (and I think it performed really highly statistically) but the best modern defences have some "bite" which I feel Bath lack.

 

[ncurd]

Whilst he went missing for us a fair bit last season I think losing Ford will still hurt although Burns is a pretty good replacement. I'm less worried about the forwards and more sitting here looking at scrum half and inside center. Our 9-10-12 axis has taken a real hit in recent years we've gone from Stringer-Ford-Eastmond to Cook-Burns-?AN Other?

 

[Which Tyler]

I'm not worried about our starting XV... when available. My concerns are when injuries take their inevitable toll; I'm unconvinced by some of the back-up players. Specifically at 9 and 12; but also a little deeper at 3 and 5.

At 9 Khan is still absolute class; but take him away and we're left with Cook who's only really shown and class in 1 of his 6 seasons; Allinson who's never looked of the right standard to be 4th choice at a premiership club; and Homer, who whilst showing promise needs to also show maturity, game management and consistency; and would be my choice to bench most games.
At 12, Tapuai is fine, and I've no concerns with Clark - but he'll often be busy filling in for JJ whilst the internationals are away; so we're one injury away from playing Banahan in the midfield again - which TBH doesn't worry me as much as it did this time last year.

Up front, Thomas is fine but injury prone (played too much too young); and Lahiff has made a good fist of transitioning... and is also still injured, leaving us starting the season with Knight and KPN... I just feel like we're well stocked for 3rd/4th choice injury cover players, but lacking a starting quality THP.
Right behind that THP though, we've got Attwood who looks like he's missed the boat for England; and how motivated will he be now? and Stooke - who's a fine back-up; but any 3rd choice #5 will be very compromised IMO.


I'd back or first choice XV against anyone; especially at home; but it's a squad game; and ~38 players will see serious game time this season; and we've got a few too many make-weights who aren't really the required standard for their place in the pecking order.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I'd like to see a bit more aggression in defence as well, it was pretty solid all season (and I think it performed really highly statistically) but the best modern defences have some "bite" which I feel Bath lack.

I always found it weird how statistically Bath had one of the best defences in the Prem because it didn't feel like it.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I think it's because the statistics don't reflect the nature of defence nowadays. Bath are good at preventing the opposition from from scoring tries but IMO that's not enough in the modern game - really good defence is a form of attack. Saracens see defence as pushing the attacking team backwards and/or taking the bal, line speed is crucial and it is aggressive in nature. Bath's defence is about absorbing pressure, and is more passive in nature

 

[BPM]

I'm not worried about our starting XV... when available. My concerns are when injuries take their inevitable toll; I'm unconvinced by some of the back-up players. Specifically at 9 and 12; but also a little deeper at 3 and 5.

At 9 Khan is still absolute class; but take him away and we're left with Cook who's only really shown and class in 1 of his 6 seasons; Allinson who's never looked of the right standard to be 4th choice at a premiership club; and Homer, who whilst showing promise needs to also show maturity, game management and consistency; and would be my choice to bench most games.
At 12, Tapuai is fine, and I've no concerns with Clark - but he'll often be busy filling in for JJ whilst the internationals are away; so we're one injury away from playing Banahan in the midfield again - which TBH doesn't worry me as much as it did this time last year.

Up front, Thomas is fine but injury prone (played too much too young); and Lahiff has made a good fist of transitioning... and is also still injured, leaving us starting the season with Knight and KPN... I just feel like we're well stocked for 3rd/4th choice injury cover players, but lacking a starting quality THP.
Right behind that THP though, we've got Attwood who looks like he's missed the boat for England; and how motivated will he be now? and Stooke - who's a fine back-up; but any 3rd choice #5 will be very compromised IMO.


I'd back or first choice XV against anyone; especially at home; but it's a squad game; and ~38 players will see serious game time this season; and we've got a few too many make-weights who aren't really the required standard for their place in the pecking order.

I agree on most of this.

Depth is the biggest issue. Particularly in midfield. For a team aspiring to make the play-offs, 3 specialist centres isn't enough - particularly when JJ will be away for a chunk of time. Playing Banahan or Brew at 13 isn't a proper solution and if Tapuai gets injured, there's no obvious replacement at 12.

With Denton gone and Ellis injured, Bath also seem light on cover at 6. Other than Garvey, all the other back row options I can think of are 7s or 8s?

I am assuming Blackadder has some SH solutions up his sleeve - like Tapuai last season, but running out of time now.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I agree on most of this.

Depth is the biggest issue. Particularly in midfield. For a team aspiring to make the play-offs, 3 specialist centres isn't enough - particularly when JJ will be away for a chunk of time. Playing Banahan or Brew at 13 isn't a proper solution and if Tapuai gets injured, there's no obvious replacement at 12.

With Denton gone and Ellis injured, Bath also seem light on cover at 6. Other than Garvey, all the other back row options I can think of are 7s or 8s?

I am assuming Blackadder has some SH solutions up his sleeve - like Tapuai last season, but running out of time now.

I don't think you have an issue at 6. Louw, Underhill and Zach Mercer are all comfortable covering there. Add in the already mentioned Garvey and that's perfectly ample cover while Ellis is out.

 

[Which Tyler]

If we're questioning Bath's backrow, then we have to question every backrow in the Prem, it's one area where we're genuinely strong both for starters and depth.

I'd go as far as to say that we've got the backrow in the Prem, and probably the best backup backrow too

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

If we're questioning Bath's backrow, then we have to question every backrow in the Prem, it's one area where we're genuinely strong both for starters and depth.

I'd go as far as to say that we've got the backrow in the Prem, and probably the best backup backrow too

I'd agree with that. I don't know what Blackadder will choose as his starting back row but:
6. Louw
7. Underhill
8. Faletau

Could only really be challenged by Saracens or maybe Exeter.
A back up back row of:
6. Ellis
7. Mercer
8. Mercer

Is also seriously impressive. When you've still got Garvey waiting in the wings back row should be the least of your worries.

 

[BPM]

If we're questioning Bath's backrow, then we have to question every backrow in the Prem, it's one area where we're genuinely strong both for starters and depth.

I'd go as far as to say that we've got the backrow in the Prem, and probably the best backup backrow too

I'm not questioning Bath's back row in general, I'm questioning the cover at 6 - I'm not sure that's the same thing?

FWIW, I'd say the Saracens back row/back up is probably the best ...

6. Rhodes 7. Burger 8. Vunipola
6. Clark 7. Fraser 8. Wray

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'm not questioning Bath's back row in general, I'm questioning the cover at 6 - I'm not sure that's the same thing?

FWIW, I'd say the Saracens back row/back up is probably the best ...

6. Rhodes 7. Burger 8. Vunipola
6. Clark 7. Fraser 8. Wray

Your depth at 6 is fine. Ellis is you only guy injured so assuming Underhill is at 7, Louw, Mercer, Garvey and Guy Mercer 7 with Underhill 6 are all quality options. Sorry but I really don't understand how you're concerned about that area.

 

[BPM]

As a Quins fan, I'm not in the least bit 'concerned', I was just making an observation : )

Obviously everyone else seems to disagree, which is fine with me.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

As a Quins fan, I'm not in the least bit 'concerned', I was just making an observation : )

Obviously everyone else seems to disagree, which is fine with me.

Ah my apologies, should've paid more attention to who was posting. Surprised in that case that you haven't mentioned Quins as potentially challenging the Bath back row, I was seriously considering them. Not much depth but a first choice back row of any 3 of Robshaw, Wallace, Clifford and Chisholm is going to be a challenge for any opposition back row to face.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think us at saints have the best back row in the premiership.

Well apart from 8

and 7

oh and 6.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

As a neutral, Mercer and Underhill are the players of real interest. And Watson in a 15 shirt.

Am I being rash in assuming that Auterac is alive and well and living in the West Country?

 

[Every Time Ref]

As a neutral, Mercer and Underhill are the players of real interest. And Watson in a 15 shirt.

Am I being rash in assuming that Auterac is alive and well and living in the West Country?

Yep he's starting against Bris at the weekend after an injury layoff so long I can't even remember what he injured

 

[BPM]

Good to hear Auterac is fit. He'd have to go some to get in the England reckoning though I reckon ... well behind Mako, Marler, Genge, and Mullan.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Yeah he's one of those players who's failed to kick on a bit for me - thinking about it, probably since around the time Paul James left which may be significant. Still he's got obvious talent and plenty of time, props traditionally peak late and he's 24.

Saying that I disagree on Mullan, and to a lesser degree Genge. Mullan is a step behind the other three and wouldn't seem to have a ceiling much higher than his current level so it wouldn't take much more than a good (as opposed to brilliant) season from a talented youngster like Auterac to displace him. Genge could go either way - if he stagnates and Auterac kicks on, then he could conceivably be overtaken, he's far from established. It would take something pretty extraordinary (or injury) for Auterac to get into the England 23 for the 6N, but third in the pecking order wouldn't be any massive surprise (even with Loons players resting, I think I don't think he's got the time to break into the November squad).

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I really thought Auterac would have been around about England contention by now but he never really moved on from 2 years ago where he looked like he could be very powerful. Maybe he needs his hair back?