Bath - we're screwed, right?

[Every Time Ref]

We don't have our own special thread on here, but if any Premiership club's fans have a lot here to talk about at the moment it's us Bath supporters.

The club is undeniably in a mess. Last season was a disaster on and off the pitch, and so far very little seems to have been achieved, or even attempted, to improve upon it. My club is quite frankly a ****ing embarrassment to me at the moment - I honestly think if I was a fan of another club I would despise Bath and what they stand for.

I could go on forever, but a short summary of our problems:

* We still don't have a head coach, not to mention scrum coach
* We have lost more players than we've brought into a squad already far too small
* Especially backs - I read someone on COML saying we only have 5 backs who we'd expect to be available during the international windows
* The atmosphere is by all accounts poisonous
* Finally Bruce Craig has all the hallmarks of the worst kind of football chairman, from his fake tan to his God complex

So, the two burning questions - how did we get here? And how do we sort this mess out?

My short answer to the first one is pisspoor top-down management, and a fixation with flashiness (in various forms) and looking for a shortcut to the top table through big name signings while ignoring the need to build a club with a proper foundation.

As for the second, we need a really good DOR with the strength and personality to turn a ****storm into a proper team in very short time, as well as the coaching skill of course - is Eddie Jones available?! We also need Brucie to step back from involvement and treat the club less like his own toy. Finally ... we need more players. Urgently. Frankly right now we could do a lot worse than sign up as many dependable Premiership journeymen as we can get our hands on. I would also suggest treating the Amlin as a development competition to preserve the players we do have, while hopefully discovering and bringing through one or two academy players who might be worth a shot in the first team.

I don't think there is a quick solution, and I don't expect to see us challenging for much this season or probably next. Anyone more optimistic than me ... ?

 

[ncurd]

I don't know why we don't have new head coach yet....utter madness and it worries me the most.

I'm less worried about the team makeup although I'd like some strength in depth.

The good news is we lost a lot of matches due to poor discipline not that we don't have the players.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

To sort the mess out you need to get some reliable backs. Looking at the season just gone by's back line, it's very exciting (Matawlau/Cook, Ford, Eastmond, JJ) but especially if Matawalu's starting, the 9-10-12 axis is just an inconsistent nightmare. Then when you consider that both your 10s are going to be away during the 6 Nations, you desperately need a new 1, maybe 2. The same goes for 12, you've lost Devoto and Eastmond, ATM your best option there is probably Priestland or in times of great need, Banahan. Hopefully Fotuali'i will tidy up the rucks a bit, because, let's be honest, your forwards have been dire. Which is odd considering the quality you had amongst them (Louw, Denton, Houston, Garvey, Attwood, Ewels, Thomas, all top players. They just didn't perform). The inclusion of Faletau should tidy that up a bit too.

I think ultimately, what your issue comes down to is too many star players without any grafters. You can't win games if no ones really grinding for it. Last season you did well because your electricity caught teams off guard, but this season teams learnt to defend against it and so you couldn't do anything.

Top priorities for you:
1. A reliable 12
2. A 10 that won't be away on international duty
3. To get some work rate out of your forwards

 

[Peat]

Fish rot from the head down. No amount of players will save Bath if it ain't right up top.

There is a lot of talent at Bath. Yes, the distribution of its somewhat lopsided, but a good head coach should be able to sort out a lot of issues straight away.

 

[SelimNiai]

Sorry to to this but

<img style="-webkit-user-select: none" src="http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/30125389/images/1391992917705.gif">

Actually not sorry

 

[ratsapprentice]

Fish rot from the head down. No amount of players will save Bath if it ain't right up top.

No doubt - some fairly scathing comments from a lot of people who have left the club in the last year or so suggests that it's not a great place to work a lot of the time.

 

[Which Tyler]

The first thing to do to turn this around is to get rid of Mike Ford - he's been utterly toxic since arriving (good coach, but toxic individual).
As for Bruce's hands on approach - I'm still not convinced that it's been true since signing Moody; I'm under the impression that Gold and then Ford have had free reign, just keeping Bruce informed. His biggest weakness recently has been in NOT firing Ford earlier (or at the very least, putting plans in place regardless), and appearing not to realise how toxic he'd been.

Next season is basically a write off; but we should have enough quality to feel safe from relegation; so the important thing is that we can take our time a little and concentrate on getting the right people going forwards. The right people starts with the Head Coach; and until we've got our man, we can't really get the right assistants or the right players.

On the pitch, our problems started up front; with our first choice LHP returning half-way through the season from an 18 month lay-off; our first choice THP suffering a crisis in form after returning from injury too early in May 2015 and our first choice hooker being basically ****.
Behind them, our locks and backrow weren't too bad, but couldn't make up for the front row's deficiencies, lost discipline and lost fitness towards the end of matches.
Matawalu could have been a great SH to play the chaos rugby on 2014-15; but completely the wrong choice to play the chaos of 2015-16 (or to turn a game from the bench); we needed Stinger for that.
Losing both ICs; one of whom was a primary example of the off-pitch problems, and one of whom the primary victim puts us further up the creek we're already in from there.
Outside backs are fine.

Our first choice team is good enough to win matches against anyone barring Saracens away - if the front-row can perform. We'll struggle during international windows and be we're incapable of challenging on 2 fronts. Luckily, we don't need to - use the pointless cup and little cup to blood the youngsters; and pick up wins the rest of the time. Our first choice team is good enough for 4-6 in the table, but we won't field it often enough to get there, so we'll be in the approximate same position in the Prem.

Get the right head coach, the right assistants, and the right signings; some to come during the season, and some to come next summer; and we can start moving upwards again.
Panic and get any-old coach, any-old assistants, and any-old signings just because they're available now; and we'll stay 8-10 this year; and be looking at relegation in a couple of seasons.

Oh, as for BO's claim that we'll only have 5 backs - that's basically lying - though we need another IC and another FH to cover for international times (Piers Francis? Jonny Williams?)... we may have to be trusting Hastings and Jennings; or playing Fortuali'i at FH or something).

LHP: Catt, Auterac, Lahiff
HK: Batty, Walker, Van Vuuren, Dunn
THP: Thomas, Wilson, KPN
LK: Chareteris, Ewels
LK: Attwood, Elis, Stooke
BSF: Garvey, Denton
OSF: Louw, Mercer
#8: Faletau, Sisi, Douglas
22
SH: Fotuali'i, Cook, Matawalu, Homer
FH: Ford, Priestland
WG: Banahan, Williams
IC: Bowden
OC: Joseph, Clark
WG: Rokoduguni, Davies
FB: Watson, Homer
15

If fit, then given a worst-case scenario during the AIs; we'd have a backline of:
Cook, Jennings, Banahan, Bowden, Clark, Rokoduguni, Homer
Homer, Jennings, Williams.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Lol if Roko finally gets his England break next season

 

[curtbob7]

Has Eastmond officially gone yet then?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aye,
Craig decided he wasn't worth the money that Ford offered him, so emailed Eastmond and told him to pack his bags and **** off.

 

[Which Tyler]

Aye,
Craig decided he wasn't worth the money that Ford offered him, so emailed Eastmond and told him to pack his bags and **** off.

IIRC it was the independant review, rather than Craig personally; though he'd have been the one to pull the trigger. Either way, not his finest moment - and he's had more than his share of not-finest-moments

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

As soon as I read about Farleigh House, it just felt like a club getting a bit up itself and losing its soul.

Whatever you say about Cockers, he's ensured that Tigers still retain their identity. His coaching staff includes Murphy, Blaze, Mauger and Cornwell, ex-Tigers all, as are Ben Kay and Rory Underwood on the board. Any club has its ups and downs but its hard to imagine Tigers going into free fall. How many of this lot bleed black, blue and white?

http://www.bathrugby.com/the-club/the-team/coaches-medical-staff/

 

[Tony Manx]

As soon as I read about Farleigh House, it just felt like a club getting a bit up itself and losing its soul.

Whatever you say about Cockers, he's ensured that Tigers still retain their identity. His coaching staff includes Murphy, Blaze, Mauger and Cornwell, ex-Tigers all, as are Ben Kay and Rory Underwood on the board. Any club has its ups and downs but its hard to imagine Tigers going into free fall. How many of this lot bleed black, blue and white?

http://www.bathrugby.com/the-club/the-team/coaches-medical-staff/

Whilst I agree with most of this, Biarritz has shown perfectly that ex-players are not necessarily any type of guarantee of success when working for the club hey played so whole heartedly for!!

 

[BPM]

From an outsiders perspective, it just seems bizarre ...

Given their test ambitions, it's arguably inevitable that one of Devoto or Eastmond needed to move on, but to let both go with no obvious back up and no replacements lined-up is crazy...

Inside centre isn't the only issue though.

The squad is really lacking depth and during the international windows they're certain to lose Charteris, Faletau, Ford and Preistland with Attwood and Roko only one injury away from a call-up too.

Even if money were no object, I can't see many/if any AP or Pro12 sides prepared to sell anyone decent going in to pre-season so the only real option as far as I can see is to sign up a team of mercenaries on short-term deals and hope that they can ride out the season.

Sad to see as a neutral ...

 

[Every Time Ref]

My thoughts on a few of the themes coming up:

Time running out - this is the big one, the later we wait for a coach the less time he has to recruit / create a gameplan before the season starts. Seriously praying they come back from NZ with a signed contract or what the ****...

Rotten fish head = rotten fish body - undeniably true that it comes from the top. Question is, is that the top of the on-pitch responsibility (DoR) or whole club (chairman)?

Brucie's hands on approach - wary of just throwing blame at him, although I was pretty scathing in my OP. Can't ignore that he has done a lot for the club, Farleigh House and all the work on the new stadium are evidence of a commitment to spending on the long term health of the club. Mixed in with this, I still feel too many of our signings have been Chief Exec signings (do we honestly think the Burgess signing was driven by Ford?). I suppose I'm guessing, maybe I'm wrong but I feel he's got his hands stuck further in than his expertise justifies.

Identity - a hard one. I'm slightly cynical that simply involving people who "bleed blue, black and white" will automatically lead to a stronger culture, but as it stands the club culture is not built on a solid base. More important IMO is that individuals involved have the right character traits, regardless of the clubs they've been affiliated with previously. This starts from the top, again, and is a key responsibility of the new DoR.

Sorry to to this but

<img style="-webkit-user-select: none" src="http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/30125389/images/1391992917705.gif">

Actually not sorry

I look forward to reminding you of this after we beat you for the 4th time

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Identity - a hard one. I'm slightly cynical that simply involving people who "bleed blue, black and white" will automatically lead to a stronger culture, but as it stands the club culture is not built on a solid base. More important IMO is that individuals involved have the right character traits, regardless of the clubs they've been affiliated with previously. This starts from the top, again, and is a key responsibility of the new DoR.

No, it won't necessarily, but having a core of people on board to whom the club really matters "custodians of the spirit" has to be a good thing, whether on the coaching or exec side. Of course people have to be qualified for any roles they hold, but continuity and stability are generally traits of sustained success.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Agree with the above:
Difference between Sale pre and post Steve Diamond coming home was massive. He's not a step up from some of the coaches we had before, but he's sale through and through and having him at the head really improved the club.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I'm just wary of seeing "club legends" as a shortcut to strong culture I guess. Attempted shortcuts to success does seem to be a bit of a theme for Bath recently.

On that topic, I'm not sure what's going on with Hooper. He's obviously being kept around, but does he have a defined role? Is he even being paid? What is he qualified to do?

 

[Which Tyler]

I'm just wary of seeing "club legends" as a shortcut to strong culture I guess. Attempted shortcuts to success does seem to be a bit of a theme for Bath recently.

Especially as Bath don't have any ex-players who've gone on to be good coaches - we have Callard, Cat, or... erm... yeah.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Borthwick? Not sure he counts as Bath's though