Best International team ever

[Tony Manx]

I pose the question......is the present All Black team the finest international team ever or are they just shining beacons in a sea of international mediocrity?

There is no doubt that physically, technically, skilfully and rugby intelligence wise, the present All blacks are brilliant and streets ahead of any of their current rivals as the Rugby Championship has and the Autumn tour will show.

They would probably fill most all of the individual positions on merit if a World XV was to be chosen at the present time........................

I cannot think of another squad in the past that would live with this one.........................unless someone knows better?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England '02

Come at me bros.m

 

[Tony Manx]

Good but not quite close enough.........................sure they would match the forwards, but would be in a different (lower that is) class to the present AB backs collectively?

 

[Draggs]

All Blacks 2005
Wallabies 1999-2001 were pretty good as well.

 

[Tony Manx]

All Blacks 2005
Wallabies 1999-2001 were pretty good as well.

James Mortimer on 4th August 2009 wrote about the 2005 squad

"On the 27th November 2004, Graham Henry would take his first year All Blacks team to the Stade de France in Paris, and would begin a remarkable period of dominance with a 45-6 win over Les Bleus.

Not just any Les Bleus, but the Six Nation's Grand Slamming Tri Colours.

It would be the birth of a fearsome All Blacks team, that would carry all before them right through to the World Cup in France, losing just four matches from the end of 2004 through to the end of 2007.

In 2005, after the Crusaders had just won the final season of the Super 12 (before it was expanded to the Super 14) and two men would emerge as pillars in which the All Black team would be built around, and if anything would become almost too invaluable to the New Zealand rugby setup.

Richard Hugh McCaw and Daniel William Carter.

The All Blacks would open their 2005 international campaign by inflicting the heaviest test defeat on Fiji 91-0.

It would appear to be an almost unsuitable warm-up for Clive Woodward's comprehensively prepared British and Irish Lions squad, arriving with enough support team and management to run a national union.

It would count for little.

The All Blacks would whitewash the fabled touring side 3-0 with an aggregate score line of 107-40, the worst series defeat ever suffered in over a century of the celebrated team's history.

They would then go on to win the Tri Nations. From this year to 2008, New Zealand would win all of the Southern Hemispheres premier ***les, winning 15 matches and losing just five.

They would also win the Bledisloe Cup for the third straight year; and embark on the second longest Tran-Tasman reign in the Cup's 78 year history. Over this time the All Blacks would win 12 matches against the Wallabies and lose only three.

Grand Slams, a world record 26 match home winning streak, 15 match undefeated run against the Northern Hemisphere would cap what would be a remarkable run for the All Blacks, whose only blemish would be a loss in Cardiff against France on the 6th October 2007."

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Good but not quite close enough.........................sure they would match the forwards, but would be in a different (lower that is) class to the present AB backs collectively?

Absolutely.
I'm sick to death of people saying England were a pack and nothing else.
Do you not remember Dawson, Greenwood, Lewsey, Robinson?
Wilko was playing great rugby then as well.

England were not a 10man rugby side. They could play that, sure, and they were very good at it, but don't insult the side by saying they had no backs game.

 

[Draggs]

Yes, from 2004 (when we nearly beat them, shot down by a young outside half) to the RWC, the All Blacks were simply superb. Not saying they aren't now, but that was incredibly special.

England had some fearsome backs. While it might sound odd, I don't think they played their best rugby in the 2003 WC.

 

[Tony Manx]

With respect, I did not say that their back line was "nothing else" just that I do not think that they measure up in depth......who would have replaced Wilkinson or Robinson then compared to Carter/Crudin now for instance?

I was so in awe by the English team of 2002 as a whole that I saved my pennies to go to Aus for the RWC 2003 so am not belittling them just comparing their totality!

 

[Rinzler]

I would have to agree with New Zealand 2005. I seem to remember Umaga retiring at the end of the year as well.

 

[04perryo]

Well if worcester was an international team...

 

[psychic duck]

I think New Zealand's side around the 2005-07 period that failed to win the World Cup was actually better than the current one which looks likely to break the world record of consecutive wins.

I feel that New Zealand are getting that record partly because several other nations aren't yet at their peak this year. Their main rivals South Africa are in a stage of large rebuilding and Australia are wrecked by injuries, whilst Ireland sent over a side which was tired after a long season and under a much criticised coach.

The 2005-07 All Blacks completely took apart teams.

In 2005 they comprehensively beat the Lions, thrashed Grand Slam holders Wales 41-3 away, then beat Ireland 45-7 with a much changed side the next week. Whilst in 2006, they beat South Africa at altitude 45-26, England 41-20, and 6 Nations holders France 47-3.

And if it wasn't for Rodney So'oialo having an absolutely dreadful game in Rustenburg costing them a defeat by one point, then they would have already broken the world record for consecutive wins. If So'oialo hadn't cost them that match with his intercept pass and silly penalties then they would have won 24 straight matches.

The Australia team of 1999-2001 led by John Eales was also great, and had the likes of Tim Horan, Joe Roff, Matt Burke, George Smith all at the peak of their games. And of course England of 2002-2003 were also great.

 

[Draggs]

See, I am trying to gauge 2011/12 AB with 2005/07.
Was it that they were so surprising from 05 to 07 and essentially remained at such a level, that we do no appreciate the current team?
Until two weeks ago, I would not have said much about this All Blacks side, and I am still reserving judgement.

NZ 2005/07 just had class players in each position. Umaga to Nonu was an excellent transition, Aaron Mauger and Carter as five eighths pairing. Class.

 

[MyPieter007]

England 2003 team in my opinion would be the best.Although you cannot really compare one era with another.Yes the All Blacks are ahead,but remember,South Africa,Australia,England,Wales,France,Ireland are all teams on a building phase.Look at all the young players aged 20-25.Johan Goosen,Owen Farrell,Sam Warburton,Wesley Fofana,Liam Gill with 5+ caps.Then you have McCaw 111 caps,Woodcock and Carter in the 90's to name a few.They will have to build soon and the All Blacks will always have a great team.You can compare the Springboks of 2009 and current All Black side,EXPERIENCE..The Boks looked miles ahead in '09 as the All Blacks were on a building phase bringing guys like Isaac Ross,Owen Franks,Kieran Read,Stephen Donald to play at test level.The other countries will eventually find their Whitelock's,Reads,Savea's.Therefore I can say England '03 is the best because thy had to compete against all the other countries with very good and experienced sides except the Springboks.HAHA,if I can recall "KAMP STAALDRAAD".Who would be the All black hooker in the next RWC after Mealamu and Hore,that's a real concern.Maybe Dane Coles or that Mcdonald from Tasman?Don't rip me head of,it's just my opinion...

 

[04perryo]

England 2003 team in my opinion would be the best.Although you cannot really compare one era with another.Yes the All Blacks are ahead,but remember,South Africa,Australia,England,Wales,France,Ireland are all teams on a building phase.Look at all the young players aged 20-25.Johan Goosen,Owen Farrell,Sam Warburton,Wesley Fofana,Liam Gill with 5+ caps.Then you have McCaw 111 caps,Woodcock and Carter in the 90's to name a few.They will have to build soon and the All Blacks will always have a great team.You can compare the Springboks of 2009 and current All Black side,EXPERIENCE..The Boks looked miles ahead in '09 as the All Blacks were on a building phase bringing guys like Isaac Ross,Owen Franks,Kieran Read,Stephen Donald to play at test level.The other countries will eventually find their Whitelock's,Reads,Savea's.Therefore I can say England '03 is the best because thy had to compete against all the other countries with very good and experienced sides except the Springboks.HAHA,if I can recall "KAMP STAALDRAAD".Who would be the All black hooker in the next RWC after Mealamu and Hore,that's a real concern.Maybe Dane Coles or that Mcdonald from Tasman?Don't rip me head of,it's just my opinion...

That takes a lot of reading...

 

[Darwin]

In terms of talent I think the 05/06 AB's team was ahead of the current AB's crop. However in terms of experience, ability to adapt, and ability to win close matches I think the current AB's team have a big edge. No matter the situation the current team always seems to be able to find away to win - even when they don't necessarily deserve to! I think having a captain with 100 test wins certainly helps....

England 2003 team in my opinion would be the best.Although you cannot really compare one era with another.Yes the All Blacks are ahead,but remember,South Africa,Australia,England,Wales,France,Ireland are all teams on a building phase.Look at all the young players aged 20-25.Johan Goosen,Owen Farrell,Sam Warburton,Wesley Fofana,Liam Gill with 5+ caps.Then you have McCaw 111 caps,Woodcock and Carter in the 90's to name a few.They will have to build soon and the All Blacks will always have a great team.You can compare the Springboks of 2009 and current All Black side,EXPERIENCE..The Boks looked miles ahead in '09 as the All Blacks were on a building phase bringing guys like Isaac Ross,Owen Franks,Kieran Read,Stephen Donald to play at test level.The other countries will eventually find their Whitelock's,Reads,Savea's.Therefore I can say England '03 is the best because thy had to compete against all the other countries with very good and experienced sides except the Springboks.HAHA,if I can recall "KAMP STAALDRAAD".Who would be the All black hooker in the next RWC after Mealamu and Hore,that's a real concern.Maybe Dane Coles or that Mcdonald from Tasman?Don't rip me head of,it's just my opinion...

I rate the England side of 2003 very highly too - as has already been mentioned they won the World Cup that year without really playing their best rugby.

Not really on topic, but hooker is one of the few areas of concern in the AB's as you mention. There isn't any obvious younger replacement at the moment - Coles and Elliot are probably the next two line (in terms of younger options), and MacDonald has shown some promise (he needs to get regular starts at Super Rugby level though).

 

[nickdnz]

2005 All Blacks

Tony Woodcock/John Afoa
Kevin Mealamu/Andrew Hore/Anton Oliver
Carl Hayman/Greg Summerville
Ali Williams
Chris Jack
Jerry Collins/Chris Masoe
Richie McCaw/Marty Holah
Rodney So'oialo/Sione Lauaki
Justin Marshall/Byron Kelleher/Piri Weepu
Daniel Carter/Nick Evans
Joe Rokocoko/Sitivini Sivivatu
Tana Umaga/Luke McAlister/Aaron Mauger
Conrad Smith/Ma'a Nonu
Doug Howlett/Rico Gear
Mils Muliaina/Leon McDonald

All Blacks from 2005 team. The 1996-1997 team comes close for me on paper (not so much on results)-

1. Olo Brown
2. Sean Fitzpatrick/Norm Hewitt/Anton Olliver
3. Craig Dowd
4. Ian Jones
5. Robin Brooke/Todd Blackadder
6. Michael Jones/Taine Randell
7. Josh Kronfeld
8. Zinzan Brooke
9. Justin Marshall
10. Andrew Mehrtens/Carlos Spencer/John Preston
11. Jonah Lomu/Glen Osborne
12. Walter Little/Alama Ieremia
13. Frank Bunce
14. Jeff Wilson/Tana Umaga
15. Christian Cullen

 

[Peat]

Yes, from 2004 (when we nearly beat them, shot down by a young outside half) to the RWC, the All Blacks were simply superb. Not saying they aren't now, but that was incredibly special.

England had some fearsome backs. While it might sound odd, I don't think they played their best rugby in the 2003 WC.

Nought odd about that, think most people would agree.

Tony - Think the depth was there alright. Bracken and Dawson were a great ding-dong battle for the shirt, Catt obviously made his case as a centre at the tournament, and both Luger and Balshaw were quality players. Then think of who was left behind in that squad - the young JSD, Austin Healey, Matt Perry toured with the Lions in 2001 but utterly out of the England team by 2003.

 

[William18]

2005 All Blacks

Tony Woodcock/John Afoa
Kevin Mealamu/Andrew Hore/Anton Oliver
Carl Hayman/Greg Summerville
Ali Williams
Chris Jack
Jerry Collins/Chris Masoe
Richie McCaw/Marty Holah
Rodney So'oialo/Sione Lauaki
Justin Marshall/Byron Kelleher/Piri Weepu
Daniel Carter/Nick Evans
Joe Rokocoko/Sitivini Sivivatu
Tana Umaga/Luke McAlister/Aaron Mauger
Conrad Smith/Ma'a Nonu
Doug Howlett/Rico Gear
Mils Muliaina/Leon McDonald

All Blacks from 2005 team. The 1996-1997 team comes close for me on paper (not so much on results)-

1. Olo Brown
2. Sean Fitzpatrick/Norm Hewitt/Anton Olliver
3. Craig Dowd
4. Ian Jones
5. Robin Brooke/Todd Blackadder
6. Michael Jones/Taine Randell
7. Josh Kronfeld
8. Zinzan Brooke
9. Justin Marshall
10. Andrew Mehrtens/Carlos Spencer/John Preston
11. Jonah Lomu/Glen Osborne
12. Walter Little/Alama Ieremia
13. Frank Bunce
14. Jeff Wilson/Tana Umaga
15. Christian Cullen

I think overall I would have to rate that 2005 side well above this current team. I think that Dagg is probably better than Muliaina as he plays a more complete game and that the Kaino/McCaw/Read combination is better than Collins/McCaw/So'oialo. Aside from that though the 2005 team probably has the current lot in most other respects. That back three was incredibly dangerous and there are no weaknesses in the tight five. England over 2002-03 don't match either All Black side in the backs IMO but were a complete side. I don't think they were quite as dominant but were very good at the type of rugby they chose to play.

The best ever side, from what I can tell, would be 1971/74 Lions team.

 

[Feicarsinn]

2006 Barbarians vs Scotland.

 

[Sam Owen]

Of the amateur era I'd have to say the 1987 All Blacks.

The All Blacks from 1987 to 1990 went 23 tests and 50 games without defeat but that run included a 19-all stalemate against the Wallabies in 1988.

*=source http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10838234

Professional era...Samoa.​