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<blockquote data-quote="TRF_heineken" data-source="post: 1001290" data-attributes="member: 40658"><p>No problem, it's always good to discuss matters and argue, with someone who's views are different from mine. I hold no grudge here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The way you came across, could be constrained that it's impossible not to get behind the movement, and in essence forcing people to commit to something they don't want to. It's good that you are challenging people's minds on this matter, you are passionate about this, I get that. But just because they disagree with you, doesn't make them wrong. Both parties can have parts of being right, maybe not in totality, but partly.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, I get that you said most countries. I'm trying to add more paint to the picture, as it's just not as cut-and-dry as you want to make it. It has nothing to do with denial, it's more about personal experiences and history that is giving us a different point of view.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The thing is though, BLM in USA is about police brutality against black people. In South Africa it's not about police brutality against black people. It's not denial, it's how the movement has changed since it was started, and what it's core value was, and how other nations are using this movement to campaign their own racial agenda.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Authority is governed by laws, and police have policies and procedures in place as to how to operate in every scenario. I wish the South African Police Service was as well trained as the american police officers. Hell, I wish our police officers was in the same physical shape as the American officers. in USA they have coffee and donuts. Over here they have KFC, and by the BUCKETS.</p><p></p><p>Escalation of arms/powers is again unique to each country. We have very strict gun laws, and you have to have a competency certificate, and have a license for each gun you own, and each person is limited to 4 guns, unless you are a registered hunter with a professional hunting license.</p><p></p><p>It also excluded the rights to be in possession of assault rifles. And only people in the security industry, police and military may carry assault rifles.</p><p></p><p>We bought the army in to deal with the Corona-virus... Each country use their powers of authority differently...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I guess us saffas, who have seen worse acts of brutality, not just by police, doesn't see the level of brutality is the same way you do. We are receiving weekly articles with graphic content as to how innocent, elderly people who cannot defend themselves are brutally raped and murdered on the farms in SA. It's horrific.</p><p></p><p>The general opinion of violent criminals in SA is that they should not be wrapped in cotton wool. and be given any leniency on sentencing. Our prison's are overcrowded, We don't have the death penalty, our police are inadequate and the poor and vulnerable keep on suffering. </p><p></p><p>There is no justice here. Yes, George Floyd should perhaps not have been handled or treated how he was. But we have seen plenty of instances over here, where the police try to subdue or arrest a violent criminal only for the criminal to launch an attack and/or have some of his own friends surprize the police and open fire. Plenty of police die that way.</p><p></p><p>The other thing is that sometimes these criminals are under the influence of some sort of drug and they are not that easy to subdue or arrest. I've seen with my own eyes how a guy, wanted for rape, had to be held down by 5 officers while they tried to handcuff him. He was superhumanly strong, for such a timid figure, and the police just could keep him down. even when they put him the holding cells at the police station, he was still as high as a kite and tough to get to the cells.</p><p></p><p>Again, personal point of views...</p></blockquote><p>[/QUOTE]</p><p></p><p>I remember the whole NFL taking a knee thing. But then again, taking a knee on the footbal field, means you are taking a down, if I'm correct and letting time go by??</p><p></p><p>If BLM was just about police brutality on black americans, I would happily support the movement, without taking a knee.</p><p></p><p>But BLM has evolved, and I've said this in previous posts too. And I just can't support this movement for what it has become.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="TRF_heineken, post: 1001290, member: 40658"] No problem, it's always good to discuss matters and argue, with someone who's views are different from mine. I hold no grudge here. The way you came across, could be constrained that it's impossible not to get behind the movement, and in essence forcing people to commit to something they don't want to. It's good that you are challenging people's minds on this matter, you are passionate about this, I get that. But just because they disagree with you, doesn't make them wrong. Both parties can have parts of being right, maybe not in totality, but partly. Yeah, I get that you said most countries. I'm trying to add more paint to the picture, as it's just not as cut-and-dry as you want to make it. It has nothing to do with denial, it's more about personal experiences and history that is giving us a different point of view. The thing is though, BLM in USA is about police brutality against black people. In South Africa it's not about police brutality against black people. It's not denial, it's how the movement has changed since it was started, and what it's core value was, and how other nations are using this movement to campaign their own racial agenda. Authority is governed by laws, and police have policies and procedures in place as to how to operate in every scenario. I wish the South African Police Service was as well trained as the american police officers. Hell, I wish our police officers was in the same physical shape as the American officers. in USA they have coffee and donuts. Over here they have KFC, and by the BUCKETS. Escalation of arms/powers is again unique to each country. We have very strict gun laws, and you have to have a competency certificate, and have a license for each gun you own, and each person is limited to 4 guns, unless you are a registered hunter with a professional hunting license. It also excluded the rights to be in possession of assault rifles. And only people in the security industry, police and military may carry assault rifles. We bought the army in to deal with the Corona-virus... Each country use their powers of authority differently... I guess us saffas, who have seen worse acts of brutality, not just by police, doesn't see the level of brutality is the same way you do. We are receiving weekly articles with graphic content as to how innocent, elderly people who cannot defend themselves are brutally raped and murdered on the farms in SA. It's horrific. The general opinion of violent criminals in SA is that they should not be wrapped in cotton wool. and be given any leniency on sentencing. Our prison's are overcrowded, We don't have the death penalty, our police are inadequate and the poor and vulnerable keep on suffering. There is no justice here. Yes, George Floyd should perhaps not have been handled or treated how he was. But we have seen plenty of instances over here, where the police try to subdue or arrest a violent criminal only for the criminal to launch an attack and/or have some of his own friends surprize the police and open fire. Plenty of police die that way. The other thing is that sometimes these criminals are under the influence of some sort of drug and they are not that easy to subdue or arrest. I've seen with my own eyes how a guy, wanted for rape, had to be held down by 5 officers while they tried to handcuff him. He was superhumanly strong, for such a timid figure, and the police just could keep him down. even when they put him the holding cells at the police station, he was still as high as a kite and tough to get to the cells. Again, personal point of views... [/QUOTE] [/QUOTE] I remember the whole NFL taking a knee thing. But then again, taking a knee on the footbal field, means you are taking a down, if I'm correct and letting time go by?? If BLM was just about police brutality on black americans, I would happily support the movement, without taking a knee. But BLM has evolved, and I've said this in previous posts too. And I just can't support this movement for what it has become. [/QUOTE]
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