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ncurd

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So thankfully this year didn't become the first in which an asterisk had to be out by the winners name saying one by virtue of Grand Slam actually accumulated less point overall.

Still I think this year proved the use of bonus points if Wales had lost on Saturday and England won they'd have won not just due to getting a sunny day Italy and racking up a high score but by playing expansive rugby in 4 games. Which is what the BP's are supposed to try and do. Of course England would of won on PD anyway...
 

Which Tyler

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Given the latter - how does it do the former?
 

ncurd

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Given the latter - how does it do the former?
Interesting point I need to some back analysis on the time Ireland and England lost by PD (three times a piece) to see if they would of won for a 'consistent' championship. However on perception it looks a lot better nobody can accuse England of just racking up the point up against Italy.
 

scotty507

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How would the table have been if we went on the old pre BP system?
 

Which Tyler

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Meh, even if it was one result that swing something, that's still a result the other teams couldn't match.
I don't think Bonus Points add anything tonsuch a short competition.
I don't think the orthodox method of awarding BPs are the best method of BPs (I'd prefer a win BP and a lose BP, I think the French do "3 tries more than the opponent" whilst I'd prefer the losing BP to be a closer requirement - 5; though I absolutely see the point against that)


How long before some official somewhere suggests a final pay-day to reside eventual positions - play the 5 rounds, then 1st v 2nd; 3rd v 4th and 5th v 6th?

ETA
How would the table have been if we went on the old pre BP system?
2019: Identical
2018: Identical
2017: Identical
2016: Identical (if recalculated with BPs)
2015: Identical
2014: Identical
 
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scotty507

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Meh, even if it was one result that swing something, that's still a result the other teams couldn't match.
I don't think Bonus Points add anything tonsuch a short competition.
I don't think the orthodox method of awarding BPs are the best method of BPs (I'd prefer a win BP and a lose BP, I think the French do "3 tries more than the opponent" whilst I'd prefer the losing BP to be a closer requirement - 5; though I absolutely see the point against that)


How long before some official somewhere suggests a final pay-day to reside eventual positions - play the 5 rounds, then 1st v 2nd; 3rd v 4th and 5th v 6th?

ETA

2019: Identical
2018: Identical
2017: Identical
2016: Identical (if recalculated with BPs)
2015: Identical
2014: Identical

Would have been identical, would it have been if wales had lost
 

Which Tyler

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Would have been identical, would it have been if wales had lost
You mean if Wales and Ireland both had 4 wins and England had 3? Then Wales would most likely have won on points difference, England would have been 3rd.
So yes, IF Ireland had beaten Wales then the presence of absence on BPs would have made a difference, between Ireland and England for 2nd place. Ireland with more wins than England would also have deserved it IMO.
 

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You mean if Wales and Ireland both had 4 wins and England had 3? Then Wales would most likely have won on points difference, England would have been 3rd.
So yes, IF Ireland had beaten Wales then the presence of absence on BPs would have made a difference, between Ireland and England for 2nd place. Ireland with more wins than England would also have deserved it IMO.

Assuming all other results stayed the same in 2019:

If Ireland had beaten Wales with a BP, Ireland win (19pts), England second (18pts), Wales third (16-18pts depending on BPs, but down on PD).

If Ireland had beaten wales without a BP, England win on points difference unless Ireland win by 59 points without scoring 4 tries (Both on 18pts). Wales, again, third.

If Ireland Wales was a draw, Wales win if they get BP1 (19 points), and come second on points difference otherwise.

There was no possible situation for England to come third if only that one match changes.
 
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Which Tyler

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It's a thread on bonus points and what changes their introduction has made?
So if Ireland had beaten Wales with the points system from before BPs were introduced.
In which case Wales and Ireland would have both had more wins, and more points, than England.
 

ragerancher

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More to the point, if Wales lost and England got the same score, England would have won with 3 wins and a draw vs 4 wins.
 
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