British and Irish Cup 13/14

[ormond lad]

Numbers competing this season is down to 24 with welsh representation gone from 12 to 4.
Same format as Heineken Cup and games played on same weekend as HEC/Amlin. 6 groups are
pool 1: Leinster A, Cross Keys, Moseley, Ealing Trailfinders
pool 2: London Welsh, Pontypridd, London Scottish, Edinburgh Academicals
pool 3: Bedford Blues, Rotherham, Llanelli, Connacht Eagles
pool 4: Munster A, Nottingham, Plymouth Albion, Stirling County
pool 5: Bristol, Aberavon, Leeds Carnegie, Gala
pool 6: Cornish Pirates, Ulster Ravens, Ayr, Jersey

 

[profitius]

Leinster 'A' won the final tonight against Leeds.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

44-17 to Leinster who were very impressive. They seemed to switch off after going 37-3 in front. If they hadn't, it would have been even worse for Leeds.

The B&I Cup has been a very useful development tool for Leinster. Last season Jordi Murphy and Martin Moore were fixtures in the squad. This season they're Ireland internationals. While I doubt anybody will make a similar leap, players like Luke McGrath, Cathal Marsh, Noel Reid and Brendan Macken are now a step above A level. Others like Jack Conan, Tadhg Furlong and Quinn Roux probably are above the level too but such is the depth of talent at their positions, they might have to stay there for another season.

Cathal Marsh was outstanding. He's the best schools flyhalf I've seen and I was very surprised when Paddy Jackson kicked on ahead of him at the same age grade. Jackson proved his worth and is now a very capable international 10. Marsh may be a couple of seasons away from establishing himself but he demonstrated all the tools required to do so. As well as a great goalkicking display, strong tactical kicking, sweet passing and his gliding breaks, his command of the backline was extremely impressive. He bossed those outside him, positioning runners and decoys where he wanted to help the flow of a backline. The knock on him has been his size and while he's not the biggest 10, he threw himself into tackles and has added length to his kicking game. For me, he's the main positive of Leinster A's campaign.

For Leeds, David Doherty was the best player by some distance in attack.

 

[munstermuffin]

44-17 to Leinster who were very impressive. They seemed to switch off after going 37-3 in front. If they hadn't, it would have been even worse for Leeds.

The B&I Cup has been a very useful development tool for Leinster. Last season Jordi Murphy and Martin Moore were fixtures in the squad. This season they're Ireland internationals. While I doubt anybody will make a similar leap, players like Luke McGrath, Cathal Marsh, Noel Reid and Brendan Macken are now a step above A level. Others like Jack Conan, Tadhg Furlong and Quinn Roux probably are above the level too but such is the depth of talent at their positions, they might have to stay there for another season.

Cathal Marsh was outstanding. He's the best schools flyhalf I've seen and I was very surprised when Paddy Jackson kicked on ahead of him at the same age grade. Jackson proved his worth and is now a very capable international 10. Marsh may be a couple of seasons away from establishing himself but he demonstrated all the tools required to do so. As well as a great goalkicking display, strong tactical kicking, sweet passing and his gliding breaks, his command of the backline was extremely impressive. He bossed those outside him, positioning runners and decoys where he wanted to help the flow of a backline. The knock on him has been his size and while he's not the biggest 10, he threw himself into tackles and has added length to his kicking game. For me, he's the main positive of Leinster A's campaign.

For Leeds, David Doherty was the best player by some distance in attack.

Snoop surely Quinn Roux will see plenty of Rabo. I expect Toner will only play 12-15 games max for Leinster next year, McCarthy to be rested odd time too but after that (excluding Douglas) the depth a bit thin.

What's your views on McGrath? Will he stay on much more as 3rd choice. I fully expect him to be ahead of Boss next year and Reid and Macken should have plenty of chances to stake a claim next season

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Quinn Roux may not be at Leinster next season. This season he was behind Devin Toner, Mike McCarthy, Leo Cullen and Tom Denton in the depth chart. Next season he'll be behind Kane Douglas rather than Leo Cullen. If he stays, I'd say his game time will be roughly the same as it was this season.

Luke McGrath should see a fair whack of action. I think Eoin Reddan will be the number one scrum half but McGrath should take a lot of game time from Isaac Boss. If Reddan is on Ireland duty, it'll increase McGrath's game time even more. He's pushed ahead of John Cooney now at the very least.

 

[Feicarsinn]

If anyone missed it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0V7tJT5_yrs


I was very impressed with the half backs. Their praises has been sung already in this thread, so I wont go any further into it. I also thought Sam Coughlan Murray was very good throughout. Hopefully he'll get more of a shout next year with the senior side.

Finally, onto the Quinn Roux issue. I could very easily see Leinster letting him go. Seeing as MOC prefers the extremely average Tom Denton to him, you've got to imagine that he wont see much game time. While it's a shame to lose a guy when he's coming close to IQ status, we might as well concentrate our efforts in Ben Marshall.

 

[munstermuffin]

Matt O'Connor in a sticky situation next season. I like Roux as a squad player. I think that role (4th choice) will see even more time next season as with the RWC next year Toner will play a lot less for Leinster I'd say. Denton is ok but not better than Roux or even Marshall.
MOC will have to pick options and stick with it like Madigan either plays at 10 or is told he's not main man, whoever is 13 has to get backing too.
McGrath must be 2nd choice and integrated as Reddan and Boss will both be gone in 24monts or so

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Leinster had six free weekends this season in November, late January/early February and March. These were the weekends the LV= Cup was played. I've seen it written somewhere that the Irish teams are looking at entering the LV= Cup. Would it be advisable for Leinster to do so while also remaining in the B&I Cup?

The LV= Cup is of a higher standard than B&I. Leinster have a number of players who are either ready to step up but may not be ready for regular Pro 12 action or who have a log jam at their position. The LV= Cup would bridge that gap for the likes of Cathal Marsh, Luke McGrath, Tadhg Furlong, James Tracy and Jack Conan. It would provide more game time for fringe first teamers like Michael Bent, Tom Denton, Quinn Roux and Darragh Fanning. At the same time it would free up B&I slots for people like Ross Byrne, Billy Dardis, Jordan Coghlan, Adam Byrne, Edward Byrne ad Ross Molony to develop further. I think it would be hugely beneficial for Leinster.

 

[profitius]

Better still snoopy, loan them out to Connacht. There's a load of players coming through. I think a lot of them will have to leave the country. Ireland is becoming an exporter of players these days.

 

[Feicarsinn]

Connacht wont want loanees. Why would they? They'd get them for a season or two tops, invest a lot of time and effort into their development and then lose them back to Leinster once they started to become serious options. They're far better off developing their own options from their perspective.

 

[profitius]

Connacht wont want loanees. Why would they? They'd get them for a season or two tops, invest a lot of time and effort into their development and then lose them back to Leinster once they started to become serious options. They're far better off developing their own options from their perspective.

Why wouldn't they if the players are better than what they have?

 

[Feicarsinn]

Why wouldn't they if the players are better than what they have?

You can't build a side on guys you're only going to have for two seasons. If the potential loanees were all that much better than the options Connacht currently have then they'd be in the Leinster squad.

 

[Peat]

Why wouldn't they if the players are better than what they have?

How many players are there who are short of gametime at the other provinces who are better than Connacht's players? Better enough to overlook the fact that in a couple of seasons they'll be gone and Connacht will be back to square one?

Maybe they'd be good for cover, bulking out the squad... but that's precious thin gametime for a lad to dump everything and move for a year.

 

[Feicarsinn]

How many players are there who are short of gametime at the other provinces who are better than Connacht's players? Better enough to overlook the fact that in a couple of seasons they'll be gone and Connacht will be back to square one?

Maybe they'd be good for cover, bulking out the squad... but that's precious thin gametime for a lad to dump everything and move for a year.

And I'd imagine Leinster have a lot more confidence in their academy structures than they do Connacht's.

 

[profitius]

What's wrong with taking players for a season or two? Would a team turn down Dan Carter or Ritchie McCaw if they were not going to stay on longer?!

The loan players would benefit from being in the spotlight. Robbie Henshaw will probably be first choice Ireland back in the next world cup. He would have probably only played a handful of games if he was with another province. Same with Marmion.

So what players would have helped Connacht. Jack Conan, Dom Ryan, Dave O'Callaghan, Quin Roux, Chris Farrell, Cathal Marsh, Ben Marshall etc.

 

[big ginger 8]

None of the players who'd be iinvolved would exactly be Carter or McCaw standard.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I'd be surprised if any of them started. Conan has unbelievable potential, but he's not there yet. The rest are a fair way off yet (well maybe not Dom Ryan, but his game time has always been constrained by injury as opposed to players ahead of him.)

None of those players are seriously going to improve Connacht in the short term, and seeing as they'd only be short term signings there's no point to them moving, at least from Connacht's perspective.

 

[profitius]

None of the players who'd be iinvolved would exactly be Carter or McCaw standard.

The point is, if a player improves the squad then why not take them on loan.

 

[Feicarsinn]

The point is, if a player improves the squad then why not take them on loan.

Because Connacht have to think long term. If they can give game time to a slightly better Leinster player who'll leave at the end of the season or one of their own who they could get 8 or 9 years out of which is of more benefit to the province? They don't need to worry about relegation, so the short term fix isn't all that important to them.

 

[munstermuffin]

People seemed to forget Connacht want to be a serious competitive team. Taking loanees basically just shows them to be a feeder team who will never be settled enough to build a team good enough to challenge.