Brumbies to send young props to England

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by Fushitsusha, Oct 17, 2007.

  1. Fushitsusha

    Fushitsusha Guest

    In todays Canberra Times there was an interesting article about how the Brumbies are going to look into sending young (19-22) props in their academy over to England for short term contracts so they can improve on their scrummaging.

    Opinions? Comments?

    Hopefully these young guys can learn the trade from the best while they're young and develop into tough props.

    It seems the days are long gone when the Brumbies used to import Argentinian front rowers.
     
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  3. melon

    melon Guest

    I want more Patricio Noriega's!

    Anyway, I think its a good idea. I suppose it all comes down to a "what-ever-it-takes" attitude which is fine by me.
     
  4. scuubasteve

    scuubasteve Guest

    Why not just send them to IRANZ (Internaitonal Rugby Academy of New Zealand) in NZ?

    The Kiwi scrum is afterall the best in the world, the English are good too, but they're halfway around the world?

    Specifics aside, its gotta be promising to see that they are taking this problem seriously, and are proactive in fixing it.
     
  5. Fushitsusha

    Fushitsusha Guest

    It just seems that at the moment that scrummagins doesn't seem to be focused on properly at the younger levels.

    It shouldn't be up to the Australian coaching staff to fix the problem. These players need to be able to perform BEFORE they're drafted into the international squad.
     
  6. Brodizzle

    Brodizzle Guest

    That's absolutely crazy, this morning I was sitting around doing my usual wishing for a front row when I thought 'hell, students go on a gap year trip to Europe, why don't the unions pay for them to learn scrummaging in England'.....stupid Canberra times beat me to it :(
     
  7. Juggernaut

    Juggernaut Guest

    I think Eddie Jones (someone can correct me on this) commented on how English Rugby rewards props on their scrumming capabilities. Their workrate & mobility comes second.

    This is not the case for Australia & NZ where the case is reversed.



    And wouldnt it be a lot cheaper & easier for Australian Rugby to get someone much more experience in the scrums than Foley.

    Foley was never a good scrummager and I dont know why he got picked. Maybe someone from SA or from Argentina.
     
  8. Fushitsusha

    Fushitsusha Guest

    Maybe they should bring back Noriega as a scrum coach?
     
  9. I guarantee that young props will learn a lot playing over here. It's not only the fact that scrummaging receives more attention than in Australia, it's the fact that they will come up against high quality opposition, all of who use different styles, every week.

    Imagine coming up against Andy Sheridan one week, Carl Hayman the next, Cobus Visagie the week after and then Tom Smith 7 days later.

    That's going to be an education for any young front-rower.
     
  10. BokMagic

    BokMagic Guest

    Webby, I seriously doubt whether youngsters from the academy setups will be given short-term GP contracts, and be up against the likes of those mentioned. If they were, it could just be a very quick route to a broken neck, and the end of a career.

    I think the idea is maybe for them to play a tier lower than that, because chucking a 19-year-old youngster prop straight up against some of those monster scrummagers, will be absolute suicide. Seriously.

    If it is handled correctly, well there could definately be something in this. On the slower surfaces in the NH, scrummaging becomes more important than a complete skills set. It`s a completely different culture and tradition, and could well be beneficial in the long run. But I`ll agree with a more immediate starting point- get rid of Foley, asap. He`s buggered up the quick channel 1 strike that has worked pretty effectively in the past, without offering anything of value in its place.
     


  11. Could still end up scrummaging against those type of guys, even at a lower level over here. For example, had any come over and played in National League One (the league below the top flight) this season, they could have faced: a highly regarded, current Scottish international tighthead; an ex-Lions and Scotlan international; a current Tongan prop and a guy with no neck from the British Army team. And that's only against Northampton, not to mention the rest of the league. I'm sure you'd find a few grizzly old sods waiting for them in the dark corners of Cornwall and the West Country.



    Sure, I'll concede you wouldn't throw them straight in, but even training against the big names and playing for Premiership reserves would teach them a huge amount.
     
  12. BokMagic

    BokMagic Guest

    Well I`ll agree with training with the big boys, for sure. I cannot think of a better learning school for a young prop than seeing the way the Haymans, Sheridans and Visagies do things, their approach to training, the hours put in, the techniques required for sure. Plus, the whole culture of scrummaging can only do wonders in the long term.

    But what I was thinking would be more beneficial, at first certainly, is maybe playing in a similar age-group type category. I`m not too sure if the top GP clubs have got age-group teams? If they do, maybe playing at u/21 level, against blokes of a similar experience but different culture and emphasis will be great.

    Look, if it was any position other than prop, no problems with chucking the youngsters in with the big boys. But a young green prop could easily get hurt by an older, wiser, 35-year-old who has forgotten more than the youngster has yet learned.
     
  13. scuubasteve

    scuubasteve Guest

    Why don't they just bring in Mike Cron, the self proclaimed 'Scrum Doctor? He's also the IRB's official scrum advisor.

    This guys is like a hitman in NZ Rugby. When you have a scrum that needs fixing this guys is the man to call.

    He works extensively with the AB's and throughout the various levels of NZ rugby. He has also (along with kicking coach Mick Byrne) carried out training camps with both the Canada and the USA teams. And also carried out short training camps at the U19 world cup.

    Apparently he uses all sorts of weird things like womens bra's etc. to teach proper technique and skill sets, in a way that players enjoy and absorb. He's also done extensive studies of Sumo wrestling to extract knowledge on using the bodies 'Core' muscles to improve strength and balance.

    Hayman isn't the only devistating Kiwi scrummager. Althought they did pretty well in transforming him from a schoolboy lock to a tighthead prop, in only a few seasons.

    Why not just hire him? They're willing to pay top dollar to get Robbie Deans, why not extent the budget to Mike Cron?

    I also believe that Cron runs a NZ scrum talent ID and tuition programme. Currently enlisted is the U19 world cup winning tighthead Ben Afeaki. 1.93m tall, 139kgs. Haymanesque if ever there was one!!


    As for short term NH contracts, I don't know why the ARU, NZRU and SARU don't do this more often. Sign up players for long term contracts, with a clause allowing them to play 1 or 2 seasons (at their choice) in the NH for big money, before returning to home. That way the SANZAR unions can slow the player movements north, and players get the best of both worlds?

    I'm sure the NH teams could do something similar. I bet a few English backs could learn a thing or two in a S14 backline?
     
  14. On paper it's a good idea but it's not practical. What English club team is going to give a young Aussie on a short term contract the time of day over an English prospect who'll benefit the club in the long run? Very few would entertain such an offer, unless they were offered significant financial compensation.

    What they should do is bring in a specialist scrum coach, be it Mike Cron or an Argentinian coach who's well versed in the bajada method. That knowledge should be passed onto Australian coaches which can be carried forward as time goes on. Sending young props to England merely exports a problem in the hope rather than expectation that somehow it'll be fixed, while doing nothing to improve coaching at home. The same hold true for other struggling scrummaging nations like Ireland.
     
  15. danny

    danny Guest

    On paper it's a good idea but it's not practical. What English club team is going to give a young Aussie on a short term contract the time of day over an English prospect who'll benefit the club in the long run? Very few would entertain such an offer, unless they were offered significant financial compensation.

    What they should do is bring in a specialist scrum coach, be it Mike Cron or an Argentinian coach who's well versed in the bajada method. That knowledge should be passed onto Australian coaches which can be carried forward as time goes on. Sending young props to England merely exports a problem in the hope rather than expectation that somehow it'll be fixed, while doing nothing to improve coaching at home. The same hold true for other struggling scrummaging nations like Ireland.
    [/b][/quote]

    got to agree snoop dawg. Why would some English club want an Aussie u21 prop who isnt technically good enough to benefit the team and hold the scrum up and wont even be there in a year or twos time.
    I dont think England have all the answers when it comes to scrummaging but they produce decent props due to the combative nature of the Guiness Prem. Australia need to look at their foward coaching and their emphasis on dynamic rather than effective fowards.
     
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