Calls grow to ditch SA

Discussion in 'General Rugby Union' started by Bull, Oct 23, 2006.

  1. Bull

    Bull Guest

    It would be a sad day if the S14 had to end, it's such a great competition. But it might be the right decision to let SA go. Maybe look for a competition up north or take a break for a few months.
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  3. Dumbo

    Dumbo Guest

    David Moffett takes it up the ass.
  4. ShowMe

    ShowMe Guest

    Hmmm, well should that day come id be disapointed, but not surprised.
  5. O'Rothlain

    O'Rothlain Guest

    I don't see it happening, but to be honest, I don't give a flip about SA Rugby.
  6. Gay-Guy

    Gay-Guy Guest

    Oh please...we in NZ have justed started the new Air New Zealnd Cup. It worked fine this year.

    S14 should be S12 with 4 teams for each country. In NZ two North Island teams and two South Island teams. South Africa definitely need to go back to four while Australia seem to be doing ok with there new fourth team as they weren't too bad.

    The Currie Cup is fine. Nothing wrong with it.

    Australia's new domestic competition should work out fine as well.

    It is the tri-nations that should change. Might be a bit hard changing the current format but at least they could drop that extra round.

    Strange how Moffett says the "traditional" rivalries between Currie Cup teams have bigger crowds for them than S14. So in proposing this new comp between NZ and Aus where exactly is the traditional rugby rivalry between say Hawkes Bay and Sydney City??????

    Sounds like Moffett is a Muppet on someones pay roll if you ask me.
  7. C A Iversen

    C A Iversen Guest

    Yes, it does.....most likely Fozzie Bear.

  8. ShowMe

    ShowMe Guest

    hmm so which team exacly would you have miss out from the north island? be a bit hard at the mo with the chiefs becoming more of a force, the canes have made the playoffs in recent times and the blues are traditional heavyweights and 3 time champions of this competition. SA should only have 4 teams and the aussies can keep their force....super13! lol
  9. Bull

    Bull Guest

    Great comment this! :wall:
  10. Rassie

    Rassie Guest

    Let`s face it, everything is possible! Money talks, that`s the new order in the professional era! You, guys, seem to forget but this competition, currently named S14, begun somewhere in the mid 80`s and there were 6 teams involved from NZ, Australia and Fiji (or Tonga/Samoa, a PI anyway)! After SA was readmitted , S6 became S10 and when rugby turned professional it became S12 and now S14 due to economic reasons! S14 as it is generates profits and this is a fact! When S14 will no longer generate gross margins as high as in present days, of course they`ll take measures!

    Another debate will be in the future clubs vs federations! The debate is in progress, for the moment clubs seems to accept federation`s position but it`s a risky business! Of course, from the economical point of view, international games have the upper leg and by this i mean Tri Nations, tours and of course World Cup! Domestic competitions, even international club competitions can not provide the same interest as international games! This is Rugby Union in League it`s quite the opposite situation (and we all know that League < Union in terms of money involvement, awareness and so on, and League being a `girlie game` hehehe)

    Therefore, it all comes to money! For the moment i don`t think disregarding SA will improve gross margins! They know that to so we are still `in` ! Moreover, our Currie Cup improvement it`s much more appealling than it was in the past! For instance, i couldn`t imagine seeing Jade depopulated at a Canteburry vs Auckland game while many of our current Currie games were sold outs!
  11. BigTen

    BigTen Guest

    "...Australian sides should play in an expanded New Zealand National Provincial Championship..." David Moffett.

    Yeah Australia would love that wouldn't they?

    Perhaps Australia could send all their players over to New Zealand when they are like 16 years-old and NZ can send them back when they have developed them into international quality players. That way Australia can truely do nothing to develop their own players.

    Although what Australia should do is concentrate on developing their own national competition rather than relying on NZ bailing them out again.

    Moffett is a muppet - dropping South Africa out of the Super 14 and Tri-Nations would be a big mistake especially for New Zealand and Australia.
  12. Mr. Laxative

    Mr. Laxative Guest

    Maybe NZ teams could play in the new AUSTRALIAN provincial comp...? No?
  13. Dumbo

    Dumbo Guest


    How's this then, Aus should send it players to NZ cause then they wouldn't have to develop them, NZ should send it players to South Africa as the chicks are better looking and South Africa could send it players to Perth cause there so many Bok's there they'd feel right at home.

    To easy.
  14. ShowMe

    ShowMe Guest

    wait wait what youre saying is that...the hot south african chics stay at home with the kiwis?
    hmmmm muppet aint got nothin on this deal :p
  15. notsure1

    notsure1 Guest

    maybe could it work
  16. -JJ-

    -JJ- Guest

    hmm so which team exacly would you have miss out from the north island? be a bit hard at the mo with the chiefs becoming more of a force, the canes have made the playoffs in recent times and the blues are traditional heavyweights and 3 time champions of this competition. SA should only have 4 teams and the aussies can keep their force....super13! lol

    Yea, if that was to happen then good luck to the person trying to take the North Island to only two teams. Wellington and Auckland have to have teams, they're just big and deserve them. The Chiefs have made themselves a decent team, and couldn't join with Hurricanes for location regions and couldn't join with the Blues for moral reasons.

    In some ways, I wouldn't be that upset if South African teams were ditched. I never watch the Super 14 games played in South Africa and have minimal interest in the South African games played here. But in saying that I do think it is good how it is. I dunno.
  17. Prestwick

    Prestwick Guest

    Now this is what I hate about Rugby. The insistence on chopping and changing, the love of everything made-on-the-hoof and ad-hoc and the fanatical dislike of anything set in stone, standardised and structured.

    There is no way that the nations who could truly plough the big bucks into Rugby like Canada and America would ever find Rugby appealing on a hugely popular scale if we keep on chopping and changing all of the international competitions and leagues around. The yanks crave stability. They love structured leagues and cups.

    If guys like Dave Moffet and the likes of the RFU were in charge of the NFL, it would have been changed half a dozen times within the space of a decade to the point where you couldn't really call it the NFL anymore.

    When will we learn that we need a structured international season!
  18. Rugby_Cymru

    Rugby_Cymru Guest

    I think (from a neutral perspective) that it may not be a bad idea.
    It sounds similar to what Moffet did to rugby in Wales.
    He had huge ideas with regionalising us and it's changed the game for us, but we've beenfited.
    Then he tried to get the Welsh regions to play week in week out with the English premiership. Something a lot of the regional directors were on board with (for money reasons) but the English claimed they didn't need us and the Irish and the Scots kicked upa huge fuss saying we'd ruin the celtic league. So the anglo-welsh cup was created.
    He seems to be sticking on to similar tracks by getting Australia to play in an "expanded New Zealand National Provincial Championship".

    Moffet always seems to have his prime country in mind and he will willingly sacrifice others (south africans) to make sure the country he reperesents ends up benefitting.

    He's a balls-on-the-line kind of thinker, that's for sure.
  19. Shosholoza

    Shosholoza Guest

    I think SA would actually benefit from not playing in the Super 14. Let's be honest the SA public really isn't as enthusiastic about the S14 as we are about the Currie Cup. The only time we're truly keen is when local teams play each other. One of the major reasons SA have been so bad in the Super tournaments previously is because of the 3 countries involved we make the biggest sacrifice. Australia and New Zealand are a hop away from each other whilst SA is a days flight away from both. Sure it makes good financial sense to be part of it but it has little other meaning for SA.

    The constant losses also demoralise players and damage club reputations, just look at the Golden Cats for instance, they won the Super tournament but since that win have been regular wooden spooners and lost most of their respect and credibility...and conversely with just one good season in the Currie Cup as the Lions they are playing to full stadiums.

    I personally would welcome a withdrawal from the Super14, SA rugby will improve and natural playing styles will be incubated and nurtured like they should. The Tri-nations should stay as-is though.
  20. BokMagic

    BokMagic Guest

    The reasons for SA`s failure in Super rugby has a lot to do with the travelling, for sure- this year, some of our teams spent 5 weeks in Australasia, crossing the Tasman twice. Now compare that to the Crusaders, who did a 10-day, 2-match hit-and-run on their long-haul tour to SA. Also, look at the way a champion side like the Brumbies struggled when they were on the road for 5 successive matches- makes you think, doesn`t it?

    But another reason is actually also the rugby culture- Aus teams tend to keep the ball in hand and run clever running lines, NZ teams tend to look towards big, strong and fast loose-forwards and outside backs in this comp.- both recipies for lots of tries. The S14 rules with bonus points etc. are more suited to the Aus/NZ style of play, as is the way the game is refereed in the S14.

    SA teams, by contrast, are traditionally built around defence and tight 5 dominance- we are actually more northern in style than southern really. Just look at the most successful Bok sides since readmission- Kitch Christie`s 1995RWC winning side, Nick Mallet`s all-conquering joint world record holders of 1998/99 and Jake White`s 2004 tri-nations champions- all 3 of those sides were built around defence and tight 5 domination. Even the most successful SA S14 side of the last 2 years, the Bulls, plays a more conservative, forward dominated, defensive game.

    I believe it will benefit our rugby tremendously to rather look north for a regional comp. than staying in the S14, that said we are still tied to the NewsCorp deal until 2010- if we decide to move before then, or if we are forced to move, there will be the issue of breach of contract, which I don`t believe any of the role-players really wants. This is just some hot air being blown by a few people who want to get a better slice of the pie IMO.
  21. Gay-Guy

    Gay-Guy Guest

    Very good points indeed. S14 rugby does seem to be un-South African in style with the points system of going for more tries as bonus points. If it was like rugby leagues NRL points system of 2 points for a win no bonus then all the teams would be playing more akin to test match rugby.....anything to get at least ONE point in front of the opposition when the final hooter went. This is why S14 is great for athleticism but not the best prep for test match rugby. Perhaps in NZ if they made the NPC points based on the NRL then NZ rugby players would have a good balanced prep for test rugby mentality.
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