• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

Cape Kiwi fans to blame for no NZ vs SA matches in Cape Town

TRF_heineken

RIP #J9
Staff member
TRF Legend
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
11,758
Country Flag
South Africa
Club or Nation
South Africa
No, this is not a sigesige00 thread!!

SARU has decided enough is enough and has sent a letter to the WPRU regarding the unruly behaviour of the fans in the stands who support NZ and NZ teams (Icemn).

SARU said that due to the behaviour of the fans, there won't be any NZ matches in the near future in Cape Town, until the matter has been resolved.

For once, SARU has done something right!

full article: http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Super15/Cape-Crusaders-to-blame-SARU-20130404

It's Interesting, there has been fights at Durban, Newlands and PE. But nothing reported at Bloemfontein or Loftus... Even though there have been fewer games at the latter due to their teams touring already. For once I can say proudly that the Bulls-fans are not hooligans...
 
"The SARU Executive Council weighs up many factors when determining where Tests will be hosted," said Roux. "The first concern is what is the best rugby environment in terms of what most suits the Springbok team and what least suits the opposition. Secondly we look at what is the most commercially viable option.

"Obviously the fact that Cape Town has been a successful ground for New Zealand - one on which they have won three out of their last four visits and also one at which they clearly feel at home - is an important factor when looking at Test allocation."

Interesting. Not showing matches in stadiums because others team may get support actually comes off as some what petty - and unlikely to win SARU more support in those regions. I suppose by that logic we should host France in Hamilton in the hope that more fans will throw bottles at French players..

EDIT:
By the way - I certainly don't condone booing your home / national team in the stadiums and buses, that's just rude. I'm just saying stopping AB matches is hardly going to win the fans over.
 
Last edited:
What's so wrong with booing your own country, if you don't support them then who has the right to force you to? It's borderline racist to say the fans can't boo South Africa, but would have no qualms with them booing NZ teams.

I get that you want to play your home games where you have you best chance of winning, but to have people like Habana whining because they aren't getting support is just childish.
 
What's so wrong with booing your own country, if you don't support them then who has the right to force you to? It's borderline racist to say the fans can't boo South Africa, but would have no qualms with them booing NZ teams.

I get that you want to play your home games where you have you best chance of winning, but to have people like Habana whining because they aren't getting support is just childish.

The problem isn't with the booing as such, it's with what happens afterwards. Those Cape Flats NZ fans become very violent when being agitated. Them booing Stormers/SA players are sure to make some people in the stand angry, and the Stadiums in SA are trying their very best to get rid of the Booing in totality. I have been to 3 rugby games this year at different stadiums and at all of them they announce regularly that People are reminded not to boo the opposing team when they run on, kick at goal or any other cause for booing.

It might sound a bit racist, but it's the exact opposite. it's trying to prevent Racism from becoming violent in the stands, Which already happened in the Kings/Sharks game.
 
What's so wrong with booing your own country, if you don't support them then who has the right to force you to? It's borderline racist to say the fans can't boo South Africa, but would have no qualms with them booing NZ teams.

I get that you want to play your home games where you have you best chance of winning, but to have people like Habana whining because they aren't getting support is just childish.

Well not really...I'd be ****** off if people boo'd the All Blacks in New Zealand. The argument is 'why should SARU make considerations for people who don't support and openly deride their teams' - which is a good point. Just as they have the right to boo the Stormers and Springboks at home games, the SARU has the right to not give them what they want. My point is that there are better way to gain support than punishment.

I generally find it more interesting that the SARU take into consideration where teams will find it more difficult and get less support. I mean I'd imagine Australia would actually like hosting South Africa in Perth because of SA support. If anything it creates a more interesting atmosphere (although there isn't the heated/violent atmosphere that exists in Cape Town - which I'm sure isn't all one sided).
 
Well not really...I'd be ****** off if people boo'd the All Blacks in New Zealand. The argument is 'why should SARU make considerations for people who don't support and openly deride their teams' - which is a good point. Just as they have the right to boo the Stormers and Springboks at home games, the SARU has the right to not give them what they want. My point is that there are better way to gain support than punishment.

I generally find it more interesting that the SARU take into consideration where teams will find it more difficult and get less support. I mean I'd imagine Australia would actually like hosting South Africa in Perth because of SA support. If anything it creates a more interesting atmosphere (although there isn't the heated/violent atmosphere that exists in Cape Town - which I'm sure isn't all one sided).

Well I won't complain about this. It just means more games in the Highveld closer to me.

I think this is just a temporary solution. To get these hooligans off the stadium. I am sick and tired of the rehabilitation course everyone wants to implement. Punishment works sometimes better, and in this case I am of the opinion the correct step has been taken. It must have taken a lot for SARU to go ahead and say enough is enough... They haven't said that to John O'neill and SANZAR, yet they have been eating their crap for more than a decade now...

Finally the SARU guys are growing some Balls!!
 
Well not really...I'd be ****** off if people boo'd the All Blacks in New Zealand. The argument is 'why should SARU make considerations for people who don't support and openly deride their teams' - which is a good point. Just as they have the right to boo the Stormers and Springboks at home games, the SARU has the right to not give them what they want. My point is that there are better way to gain support than punishment.

I generally find it more interesting that the SARU take into consideration where teams will find it more difficult and get less support. I mean I'd imagine Australia would actually like hosting South Africa in Perth because of SA support. If anything it creates a more interesting atmosphere (although there isn't the heated/violent atmosphere that exists in Cape Town - which I'm sure isn't all one sided).

Like I said, I don't have any issues with the SARU moving games to places where they get the most support, but it's ridiculous that players think they are entitled to support from each an every South African.

Well I won't complain about this. It just means more games in the Highveld closer to me.

I think this is just a temporary solution. To get these hooligans off the stadium. I am sick and tired of the rehabilitation course everyone wants to implement. Punishment works sometimes better, and in this case I am of the opinion the correct step has been taken. It must have taken a lot for SARU to go ahead and say enough is enough... They haven't said that to John O'neill and SANZAR, yet they have been eating their crap for more than a decade now...

Finally the SARU guys are growing some Balls!!

I don't think it's the non-SA supporters who are the hooligans... All I've heard is that they booed the Stormers. It's the other games where there have been major issues.
 
Interesting. Not showing matches in stadiums because others team may get support actually comes off as some what petty - and unlikely to win SARU more support in those regions. I suppose by that logic we should host France in Hamilton in the hope that more fans will throw bottles at French players..

EDIT:
By the way - I certainly don't condone booing your home / national team in the stadiums and buses, that's just rude. I'm just saying stopping AB matches is hardly going to win the fans over.

I think you understand the situation wrong. Those Cape Crusaders fans were given attention by the media. First mistake. Now like football hooligans they have a new purpose. Troll the stadium boo the home team when they get off the bus and look for trouble. In the end it will end up in violence where innocent kiwi fans might get hurt or who's safety might be compromise. As you would know no security in the world is big enough to watch everything at a rugby stadium. Think NZ or any other country would do the same
 
What's so wrong with booing your own country, if you don't support them then who has the right to force you to? It's borderline racist to say the fans can't boo South Africa, but would have no qualms with them booing NZ teams.
I get that you want to play your home games where you have you best chance of winning, but to have people like Habana whining because they aren't getting support is just childish.


NOOOOOO!!!! It's not even REMOTELY racist, since New Zealander's and South African's aren't "races" they are nationalities (these two have particularly siginificant ethnic diveristy as well).

Your statement is just an attempt to possibly "poison the well" or claim some sort of moral high ground in order to shut down debate, or that in the event your argument looks much weaker than others you still get to feel all warm and fuzzy inside for being on the "touchy feely" side of the issue.
 
What..?

Ok, so let's swap the term racism for something else, nationalism. It's no different to saying you have to support white people instead of blacks. Why should your place of birth (which is simply an accident of chance) restrict who you can and can't support?

I'm struggling to see how this is a moral high ground or touchy feely argument that shuts down debate. If you could explain the difference please enlighten men, but don't brush it aside simply because it's logically sound and counter to what the touchy feely stuff we get taught in school.
 
What..?

Ok, so let's swap the term racism for something else, nationalism. It's no different to saying you have to support white people instead of blacks. Why should your place of birth (which is simply an accident of chance) restrict who you can and can't support?

I'm struggling to see how this is a moral high ground or touchy feely argument that shuts down debate. If you could explain the difference please enlighten men, but don't brush it aside simply because it's logically sound and counter to what the touchy feely stuff we get taught in school.

If you should just support whoever then the whole idea of international rugby just shuts down. You can pick your club - not your country. If you emigrate, sure, you can change allegiances eventually but not supporting South Africa when you are from there is just plain wrong for me.
 
What..?

Ok, so let's swap the term racism for something else, nationalism. It's no different to saying you have to support white people instead of blacks. Why should your place of birth (which is simply an accident of chance) restrict who you can and can't support?

I'm struggling to see how this is a moral high ground or touchy feely argument that shuts down debate. If you could explain the difference please enlighten men, but don't brush it aside simply because it's logically sound and counter to what the touchy feely stuff we get taught in school.

You are free to support or dislike whoever the hell you want, I'm also free to tell anyone who actively boos their own countrymen that I don't respect their decision.

Nationality and Race = Apples and Oranges....last time I checked the "white race" dosen't send me social assistance checks or provide me health care...nor does it come to my aid when Canada is attacked. Many people do change their nationalities as well by immigrating or emigrating(though I acknowledge that these oppourtunites are different and somtimes limited by circumstance) as well many of us have the oppourtunity to change the nations we live in by molding them, look at the changes in South Africa in the last 20 years as a perfect example. "Nation" is a maluble concept. The only people to use race in this way have been proponents of Eugenics who have commited some of the most awful atrocities in history.

I also don't understand the "which is simply an accident of chance" welcome to the human race!! We are all restricted by accidents of chance, I won't be entering an NBA court anytime soon but using your logic I should get them to change the rules so the basket is only seven feet high. I could sit and whine about it all day or I could go play another sport or attempt to hone some dribbing and shooting skills to compensate, much like the people who would boo at Newlands when South Africa is playing New Zealand could get off their ass and make South Africa a better place if they don't like it or actively attempt to emigrate, rather than sit around and cry...."ooohhhh I wish I'd been born in New Zealand". It's a lazy and petty thing to do, I acknowledge there are historical reasons for the NZ vs. South Africa support, but none of the current players are actively responsible for what happened two decades ago. In some cases they are representations of positive change.

Likewise you are already changing the "terms" of your debate it's already gone from booing(which is an act of active dissaproval) to "supporting" which are also two entirely different things. I saw quite a few Italian "supporters" many of whom were Canadian citizens at Italy vs. Canada last June, they supported Italy by cheering when the Azzuri did well, and at most there was some cheerful banter between opposing fans, they didn't come in and actively boo their own countrymen nor harass the Canadian team as it left the team bus. Many got up and cheered both teams off the field, and some were wearing both Canadian and Italian colours.

Edit: When I accused you of "poisoning the well" in your first post, this was against your statement that anyone who had a different opinion on this was "borderline racist". Laying out something like that changes the nature of a debate, since you insinuate that anyone that disagrees is a morally inferior person. Politicians and academics LOVE to use this kind of language, eg "Anyone who dsoen't support our Internet surveillance bill is for child pornography"( a Canadian politician actually used this...even more hilarious since he got a teenage babysitter pregnant some years ago).
 
Last edited:
The last Boks v ABs match in Cape Town was in 2008.... and they are making this decision now, five years later. Can anyone imagine the NZRU announcing that there would be no more New Zealand v Australia tests at Eden Park because of unruly Aussie fans? It would not happen, and even if it did, what would stop them simply travelling to the Cake Tin if the test was there?

What is there to stop the Cape AB fans from simply going along to Ellis Park on the 5th of October, and carrying on where they left off?

Short sighted and stupid this SARU decision is. They risk alienating hundreds of thousands of genuine rugby fans from the Cape because of the behaviour of a few morons.
 
What..?

Ok, so let's swap the term racism for something else, nationalism. It's no different to saying you have to support white people instead of blacks. Why should your place of birth (which is simply an accident of chance) restrict who you can and can't support?

I'm struggling to see how this is a moral high ground or touchy feely argument that shuts down debate. If you could explain the difference please enlighten men, but don't brush it aside simply because it's logically sound and counter to what the touchy feely stuff we get taught in school.
They do not support the Crusaders. They support "a player" normally because unlike the stuck up cocks we have here the Kiwi players are actually friendly and stop and talk to fans while giving out autographs. Especially the Pacific Islanders.

But others have seen this as a cheap way to get on tv and to troll around and getting attention.
 
The last Boks v ABs match in Cape Town was in 2008.... and they are making this decision now, five years later. Can anyone imagine the NZRU announcing that there would be no more New Zealand v Australia tests at Eden Park because of unruly Aussie fans? It would not happen, and even if it did, what would stop them simply travelling to the Cake Tin if the test was there?

What is there to stop the Cape AB fans from simply going along to Ellis Park on the 5th of October, and carrying on where they left off?

Short sighted and stupid this SARU decision is. They risk alienating hundreds of thousands of genuine rugby fans from the Cape because of the behaviour of a few morons.
Because the Cape Crusaders fans are normally colored people from the Cape like myself. I am not a Crusaders fan but I watch rugby and follow it. They watch one game a year that is when the Crusaders or Chiefs comes here, You will see a colored oak wearing a All Black jersey jump up and down from excitement when the Stormers scores a try. Wearing NZ jersey do not make you a supporter. Colored people always had a strong affiliation with the Pacific Islanders here in the Cape. We gave them a place to stay when the Kiwi's were touring here in the Apartheid era
 
The last Boks v ABs match in Cape Town was in 2008.... and they are making this decision now, five years later. Can anyone imagine the NZRU announcing that there would be no more New Zealand v Australia tests at Eden Park because of unruly Aussie fans? It would not happen, and even if it did, what would stop them simply travelling to the Cake Tin if the test was there?

What is there to stop the Cape AB fans from simply going along to Ellis Park on the 5th of October, and carrying on where they left off?

Short sighted and stupid this SARU decision is. They risk alienating hundreds of thousands of genuine rugby fans from the Cape because of the behaviour of a few morons.

yeah it is shortsighted. But nothing prevents NZ supporters from attending matches at other stadiums... in fact, nothing has prevented them from it in the past...

But the problem is the Stadium itself, and the local residents who don't have the money to travel at least 1000km to the next nearest Intl Rugby Stadium (Bloemfontein/PE).

the thing is, that this has been brewing for a long time, and now it has reached boiling point. Whether we like it or not, it's one of those decisions that might look wrong, but is necessary...
 

Latest posts

Top