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Centralised team/player database idea

I

Inertia

Guest
I am developing a new editor which is similar in build to the Rugby League 2 editor I made (some of you may know it). The advantages of my editor will be the functionality and the ease of use in dragging and dropping players into teams and rearranging them in the gui. Also, it will be easy to add advance things like searching by selected criteria and updating players in bulk. (i.e make a whole team or certain player positions 10% faster or stronger etc).

Since the internals of the editor are built around a database to manage all the teams and players I was thinking if anyone would be interested if I were to allow the editing and updating of a centralised database that people can login to and make changes. I run several 100mb servers so speed and location is not a problem.

Some of the advantages/disadvantages are as follows

Pros

1. People can download at any time the most current version of the player / team rosters
2. People (or at least a select group) can login and make changes to this database

Cons
1. Some people might mess things up on purpose but daily/hourly backups can be made
2. Some people might disagree with the stats given to certain players and hence arguments would flair up

What are you opinions on this?

Forgot to add - Woosah is also (hopefully) doing some programming on this editor once I get the base set up (as well as continuing his own version of the editor).
 
O

ozzy

Guest
Sounds awesome, if you like you can use my latest roster as an initial base as it has already got a large number of updates, which would save extensive initial editing.
 
I

Inertia

Guest
Sounds awesome, if you like you can use my latest roster as an initial base as it has already got a large number of updates, which would save extensive initial editing. [/b]

Yes, that was what I was thinking too and it would be helpful for you and others to keep up to date rosters without it being a constant mammoth task or having to decide which roster patch you want to use and by whom.

We could have our own forum thread here (or on the server where the db is) for the updaters to discuss their plans and coordinate it.

I was thinking that there should be a core updating team and new users can apply to join - this way things don't get too messy.
 
G

Gabrielitalian

Guest
Wonderful idea!
I think that should be selected at least a person in charge of the updates for each Union. It would be usefully also to have 2 coordinators for the NE and SE wich will authorize the update
 
O

ozzy

Guest
Yeah having a core group of users to update the rosters is probably the best way to go. You wouldn't believe some of the way out suggestions on some players ratings I have received, basically we'd have a roster where everyone had an average rating of 95 or more!! :p
 
S

ssn

Guest
Mate ,this is the best idea ive seen on here in ages, any help you guys give with fixing these rosters is much appreciated by everyone!!!
 
R

Rockstar

Guest
Yeah having a core group of users to update the rosters is probably the best way to go. You wouldn't believe some of the way out suggestions on some players ratings I have received, basically we'd have a roster where everyone had an average rating of 95 or more!! :p
[/b]


Ozzy........or anyone out there.....

If you had to rate the players in your favourite team realistically eg. South Africa or Sharks,.....& then up the ratings on all the other teams & players to a very high level....do you think that would help to make the game more challenging? just a thought.
 
J

jamtheman

Guest
if you need any help with South African player stats, just let me know.

Im an SA supporter, but im VERY unbiased and understand making the game as realistic as possible, and i know you guys get som of the south african stats horribly wrong, including making average players too good (i dont blame you, i watch currie cup etc so im up to date on it).

anyway yeh chuck me an email on [email protected] if u need any south african stat clear ups, i know Australian and New Zealand as well but no where near the extent of my south african knowledge
 
O

ozzy

Guest
@ rockstar
I have tried this sort of experiment before, but so far the results have been terrible, players with high stats just make the game easier to be honest because without a better AI to take advantage of those stats it's virtually exactly the same as playing it with the current stats. Also it makes the players feel very samey which just makes the game more boring, as it is already pretty formulaic.
The only way to make it kind of work is to make the team you play as absolute shite, but then that's no good for an online database as everyone will have a team or teams they like playing with, not to mention
 
I

Inertia

Guest
@ rockstar
I have tried this sort of experiment before, but so far the results have been terrible, players with high stats just make the game easier to be honest because without a better AI to take advantage of those stats it's virtually exactly the same as playing it with the current stats. Also it makes the players feel very samey which just makes the game more boring, as it is already pretty formulaic.
The only way to make it kind of work is to make the team you play as absolute shite, but then that's no good for n online database as everyone will have a team or teams they like playing with, not to mention [/b]

There would be scope to offer a few different database versions for different styles of gameplay.
 
W

woosaah

Guest
this all sounds pretty sweet :) cant wait to get it all up and running, but everyone should remember it may take a bit of time to get sorted. its not going to happen tomorrow (at least i dont think so)
 
D

Darhf

Guest
There's no need to reinvent the wheel.

Export the existing database as a csv (build the function in the editor), import it in a new google Spreadsheet ( http://docs.google.com/ ) and share it with whoever you want. May be the world, may be a select few. This will be easier to manipulate than anything you or me may build up from scratch.

Allow your new editor to import this custom modified files as csv, and voila, you're done

Don't forget to put non-editable columns for original team, stat, face, player ID.

Focus on the content. That's my humble advice.

And I would be happy to join the team.
 
W

woosaah

Guest
What he is trying to do is not reinvent anything, he is just trying to make it as up to date as possible by creating something new and accessable.

His editor will be alot better than my current one, I am helping him out with what I already know to make it easier for him to be able to do it, he is a programmer by trade, so he will be able to have alot more functions that i would be able to do.
 
I

Inertia

Guest
There's no need to reinvent the wheel.

Export the existing database as a csv (build the function in the editor), import it in a new google Spreadsheet ( http://docs.google.com/ ) and share it with whoever you want. May be the world, may be a select few. This will be easier to manipulate than anything you or me may build up from scratch.

Allow your new editor to import this custom modified files as csv, and voila, you're done

Don't forget to put non-editable columns for original team, stat, face, player ID.

Focus on the content. That's my humble advice.

And I would be happy to join the team.

[/b]

I am not reinventing anything. The editor i have started already contains a database that the players and teams are imported too. The editor would only need to connect to a live version of this rather than a local version. As it stands, the current editor works from an access database file and it's even easier to make it run from a mysql database from my server.

I have already done most of the work on this system with my RL2 editor and am in the process of making a new editor based on lumps of that code, albeit improved.

I don't know about your skills but you know even less about mine , so what I am capable of building up from scratch is obviously subjective and I wouldn't put forward any ideas I wasn't capable of doing. :rolleyes:
 
D

Darhf

Guest
Guys,

I'm not saying we don't need a new editor.

The don't reinvent the wheel applied to the collaborative work part. The tools to work and edit files in collaboration already exist, my humble advice is : use them !

I don't doubt you have skills. I doubt however that your time and your patience is infinite so I'm giving a little advice to help you speed the process a bit.

Now leave it or take it but please don't make it a non-existent aggression of your ego :blink:
 
I

Inertia

Guest
Guys,

I'm not saying we don't need a new editor.

The don't reinvent the wheel applied to the collaborative work part. The tools to work and edit files in collaboration already exist, my humble advice is : use them !

I don't doubt you have skills. I doubt however that your time and your patience is infinite so I'm giving a little advice to help you speed the process a bit.

Now leave it or take it but please don't make it a non-existent aggression of your ego :blink:
[/b]

:blink:

Quite what "non-existent aggression of your ego" means I am unsure. But the fact you mention ego gets my back up. I don't do this for the ego, I've already proven my work in this field years ago. I think you mentioning my ego is a little bit of psychological projection on your part. You don't need to accuse me of things you unconsciously see in yourself.

The current tools are ok but could be much better and haven't progressed since the 2005 version. The RL2 editor is much more advanced than any of the other rugby editors I have seen and I'd like to make it work for R08. One thing I don't have is a lot of time but I know what i want to acheive and how to achieve it given the time I have and the fact I already have and use the source code of the other R08 editor to not have to do the cumbersome work of figuring out all the ingame datastructures. The new project pools work from the current editor project, the RL 2 editor project and the code i wrote to administer and online database shop from VB Net. The fact I said he would continue with his other editor is so we don't stand still.

If you have seen my RL 2 editor then I don't think you have much to worry about :p
 
D

Darhf

Guest
<div class='quotemain'> Guys,

I'm not saying we don't need a new editor.

The don't reinvent the wheel applied to the collaborative work part. The tools to work and edit files in collaboration already exist, my humble advice is : use them !

I don't doubt you have skills. I doubt however that your time and your patience is infinite so I'm giving a little advice to help you speed the process a bit.

Now leave it or take it but please don't make it a non-existent aggression of your ego :blink:
[/b]

:blink:

Quite what "non-existent aggression of your ego" means I am unsure. But the fact you mention ego gets my back up. I don't do this for the ego, I've already proven my work in this field years ago. I think you mentioning my ego is a little bit of psychological projection on your part. You don't need to accuse me of things you unconsciously see in yourself.[/b][/quote]

How much do I owe you for the consultation ?

Have a beer, read my posts, and cool down a little. I gave you a way to gain time, you took it as a kind of insult to your skills, no wonder I mention your ego.

However you still don't read my posts in full, hence this off-subject sentence:


The current tools are ok but could be much better and haven't progressed since the 2005 version. The RL2 editor is much more advanced than any of the other rugby editors I have seen and I'd like to make it work for R08. One thing I don't have is a lot of time but I know what i want to acheive and how to achieve it given the time I have and the fact I already have and use the source code of the other R08 editor to not have to do the cumbersome work of figuring out all the ingame datastructures. The new project pools work from the current editor project, the RL 2 editor project and the code i wrote to administer and online database shop from VB Net. The fact I said he would continue with his other editor is so we don't stand still.

If you have seen my RL 2 editor then I don't think you have much to worry about :p [/b]

Ok now, :

- your skills are OK.
- your ego is fine.
- you are a competent programmer with a lot of experience
- you are maybe a greater programmer than me
- and if you are I don't care
- you made a great RL2 editor.
- Woosah made a great R08 editor
- Wossah editor < Your editor
- You are making a new R08 editor and it's fine
- I have no doubt you're making a great r08 editor
- And if you don't I don't care either

What I'm saying from the start and you somehow interpreted as an attack is :

- Instead of bulding an online database editor from scratch,
- Use a time-tested solution which works fine, like Google documents
- What you or me can build from scratch < What Google team already built
- That will give you more time for content editing
- And if you don't think it's a good solution then
- Just say "no sir, I'll use my own tools which I already made in VB.net in another context"
- And amen to you


English is not my native language, so maybe I'm having trouble being understandable, but I'm pretty sure I'm not into a skill race with you; I gave my share to the community, and since I don't have time anymore to do anything else, I'm giving a bit of advice when I can. You can accept it or not, but don't read more from my post than what is written.
 
I

Inertia

Guest
<div class='quotemain'> <div class='quotemain'> Guys,

I'm not saying we don't need a new editor.

The don't reinvent the wheel applied to the collaborative work part. The tools to work and edit files in collaboration already exist, my humble advice is : use them !

I don't doubt you have skills. I doubt however that your time and your patience is infinite so I'm giving a little advice to help you speed the process a bit.

Now leave it or take it but please don't make it a non-existent aggression of your ego :blink:
[/b]

:blink:

Quite what "non-existent aggression of your ego" means I am unsure. But the fact you mention ego gets my back up. I don't do this for the ego, I've already proven my work in this field years ago. I think you mentioning my ego is a little bit of psychological projection on your part. You don't need to accuse me of things you unconsciously see in yourself.[/b][/quote]

How much do I owe you for the consultation ?

Have a beer, read my posts, and cool down a little. I gave you a way to gain time, you took it as a kind of insult to your skills, no wonder I mention your ego.

However you still don't read my posts in full, hence this off-subject sentence:


The current tools are ok but could be much better and haven't progressed since the 2005 version. The RL2 editor is much more advanced than any of the other rugby editors I have seen and I'd like to make it work for R08. One thing I don't have is a lot of time but I know what i want to acheive and how to achieve it given the time I have and the fact I already have and use the source code of the other R08 editor to not have to do the cumbersome work of figuring out all the ingame datastructures. The new project pools work from the current editor project, the RL 2 editor project and the code i wrote to administer and online database shop from VB Net. The fact I said he would continue with his other editor is so we don't stand still.

If you have seen my RL 2 editor then I don't think you have much to worry about :p [/b]

Ok now, :

- your skills are OK.
- your ego is fine.
- you are a competent programmer with a lot of experience
- you are maybe a greater programmer than me
- and if you are I don't care
- you made a great RL2 editor.
- Woosah made a great R08 editor
- Wossah editor < Your editor
- You are making a new R08 editor and it's fine
- I have no doubt you're making a great r08 editor
- And if you don't I don't care either

What I'm saying from the start and you somehow interpreted as an attack is :

- Instead of bulding an online database editor from scratch,
- Use a time-tested solution which works fine, like Google documents
- What you or me can build from scratch < What Google team already built
- That will give you more time for content editing
- And if you don't think it's a good solution then
- Just say "no sir, I'll use my own tools which I already made in VB.net in another context"
- And amen to you


English is not my native language, so maybe I'm having trouble being understandable, but I'm pretty sure I'm not into a skill race with you; I gave my share to the community, and since I don't have time anymore to do anything else, I'm giving a bit of advice when I can. You can accept it or not, but don't read more from my post than what is written.
[/b][/quote]

To be honest Dharf I didn't even bother reading most of what you wrote because I can tell that after saying I am on an ego trip you are about to patronise me on top of it all so let's just leave it at that.

I just want to make something that's good for us all to use here and if you only want to throw negativity in the fray that's your choice.

You are free to use the tool or not, as simple as that.
 
D

Darhf

Guest
To be honest Dharf I didn't even bother reading most of what you wrote
[/b]

Thanks for making me losing my time. You seem the type to be open to dialogue. :blink:

because I can tell that after saying I am on an ego trip you are about to patronise me on top of it all so let's just leave it at that.
[/b]

Divination powers ? You can tell without reading ?

Where do I patronise you ?

You're the one overreacting from the start.

You're creating a mess out of nothing.

You don't need to invent imaginary enemies.

I just want to make something that's good for us all to use here and if you only want to throw negativity in the fray that's your choice.
[/b]

Point me the negativity, please.

You are free to use the tool or not, as simple as that.
[/b]

Of course I do.

And i'm free to give you advice on this board without being wrongly portrayed as some kind of anti-editor-cabalist by someone who doesn't even read my posts :mellow:
 

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