Champions Cup 15/16 - Rd 1 Pool 5 (Bath, Leinster, Toulon, Wasps)

[Aristodemus]

Didn't think Wasps could go to Leinster and get such a convincing victory. Thoroughly deserved too.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Thank **** that was given - fumbles that don't go forward being erroneously described as knock ons are one of my biggest irritations.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Will be really happy if you have stopped Toomua going Wasps.

Esp if they can keep CP.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I'm pretty much just annoyed about it at the moment, there's a lot of injuries (5 starters lost before the game and 3 within 43 minutes) but the complete lack of intensity for most of the game and the huge amount of unforced errors is just plain unexcusable. We'll need to see an absolutely massive improvement for the next games to have any chance of getting out of the pool.

Yeah...the injuries were a real obstacle, no doubt about that. I guess one thing I'd say is that two weeks ago Wasps played Tigers and I was shocked by the unforced errors and it looked as if the players had never met. That we went from that to today in two games I think just shows that great sides do have off days, not that it makes it any better or easier.

There was a lack of energy and heart to Leinster today which I'm really not used to. I guess you guys tend to rely on momentum to build a really electric sort of energy, but when that is stifled or ot allowedto build there's a risk of going a bit flat.

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Thank **** that was given - fumbles that don't go forward being erroneously described as knock ons are one of my biggest irritations.

Totally agree. "Ball bobbled around therefore it must have gone forward"

 

[LukeFitzgerald]

Fair play to Wasps. Thoroughly deserved.

However, Leinster dominated much of the game. They could break Wasps down and get into the 22 relatively easily. Once they were in the 22, Wasps' defence was rock solid and much of the turnovers resulted from Leinster's knock ons and unforced errors.

Leinster were missing Kearney, Isa, Fitzy, Te'o and Ruddock going into the game and lost Strauss and SOB early on. Take out 7 of NZ's starting team and they would struggle against a decent side.

Our backline on paper was fairly poor and in practice they were appalling. Sexton and Madigan had a mare. Reid had some nice touches but is way too light and defensively suspect for top level rugby. McFadden is on a downward spiral and is not a 13. Kirchner wouldn't make the 23 if we had our full team out. Ringrose was class when he came on and I fully agree in not starting him today. Hopefully he sees more gametime against Bath.

Fair play Wasps. Leinster are more than likely out of Europe. Cullen should definitely stay on and anyone calling for his head really needs to get a basic understanding of rugby

 

[Trrf_Dog]

Yeah...the injuries were a real obstacle, no doubt about that. I guess one thing I'd say is that two weeks ago Wasps played Tigers and I was shocked by the unforced errors and it looked as if the players had never met. That we went from that to today in two games I think just shows that great sides do have off days, not that it makes it any better or easier.

There was a lack of energy and heart to Leinster today which I'm really not used to. I guess you guys tend to rely on momentum to build a really electric sort of energy, but when that is stifled or ot allowedto build there's a risk of going a bit flat.

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Totally agree. "Ball bobbled around therefore it must have gone forward"

Woof

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Absolutely sickening performance. Worst Leinster performance in 10 years if not ever. Dave Kearney had an absolute howler, the backrow was awful, the front five had no presence whatsoever and Reddan and Sexton were very off. Reid was our only starter to play well and Ringrose was good coming on.

Win next week or it's time to focus on the pro 12.

Well done Wasps, well deserved win from a clinical performance.

 

[j'nuh]

Fair play to Wasps. Thoroughly deserved.

However, Leinster dominated much of the game. They could break Wasps down and get into the 22 relatively easily. Once they were in the 22, Wasps' defence was rock solid and much of the turnovers resulted from Leinster's knock ons and unforced errors.

Leinster were missing Kearney, Isa, Fitzy, Te'o and Ruddock going into the game and lost Strauss and SOB early on. Take out 7 of NZ's starting team and they would struggle against a decent side.

Our backline on paper was fairly poor and in practice they were appalling. Sexton and Madigan had a mare. Reid had some nice touches but is way too light and defensively suspect for top level rugby. McFadden is on a downward spiral and is not a 13. Kirchner wouldn't make the 23 if we had our full team out. Ringrose was class when he came on and I fully agree in not starting him today. Hopefully he sees more gametime against Bath.

Fair play Wasps. Leinster are more than likely out of Europe. Cullen should definitely stay on and anyone calling for his head really needs to get a basic understanding of rugby

I didn't watch the game today, but from the sounds of it, exactly the same happened as what happened between Gloucester and Wasps last week. And if that's the case, I don't think it's fair to Wasps to say that they were dominated. It seems to me that Wasps have put an intense focus on defensive structure and discipline, and it's paid dividends for them.

 

[PacDuran]

Absolutely sickening performance. Worst Leinster performance in 10 years if not ever. Dave Kearney had an absolute howler, the backrow was awful, the front five had no presence whatsoever and Reddan and Sexton were very off. Reid was our only starter to play well and Ringrose was good coming on.

Win next week or it's time to focus on the pro 12.

Well done Wasps, well deserved win from a clinical performance.

Irish rugby in the pits!

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Yeah, Leinster dominated only insofar as they had longer spells of possesion in Wasps' 22. However they did nothing with it and were not able to break down our defensive structure and actually as J'Nuh says our discipline was surprisingly good.

In contrast Wasps looked a lot more threatening both as individuals and as a collective - and were skillful enough to make the most of opportunities.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Irish rugby in the pits!

No.

 

[LukeFitzgerald]

Yeah, Leinster dominated only insofar as they had longer spells of possesion in Wasps' 22. However they did nothing with it and were not able to break down our defensive structure and actually as J'Nuh says our discipline was surprisingly good.

In contrast Wasps looked a lot more threatening both as individuals and as a collective - and were skillful enough to make the most of opportunities.

Yeah Wasps' defence was class but we never bottled most of our opportunities in your 22 due to unforced errors rather than unbelievable defence.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Without wishing to be harsh on them, who out of Ian Madigan, Zane Kirchner, Fergus McFadden, Noel Reid (played pretty well today) and Dave Kearney are top class players? That's an average at best backline. Leinster were exposed today against a much better team.

So much to work on. How Leinster recover from this will define their season. If they lose badly against Bath, a sea change is needed. What's the harm in throwing in Tadhg Furlong, Ross Molony, Josh van der Flier, Luke McGrath and Garry Ringrose? They're Leinster's future. A rebuild around those guys may be required.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

who out of Ian Madigan, Zane Kirchner, Fergus McFadden, Noel Reid (played pretty well today) and Dave Kearney are top class players?

Madigan, McFadden and D.Kearney have been HUGELY hyped in the past, funny to see people now saying they're average after a loss!

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Without wishing to be harsh on them, who out of Ian Madigan, Zane Kirchner, Fergus McFadden, Noel Reid (played pretty well today) and Dave Kearney are top class players? That's an average at best backline. Leinster were exposed today against a much better team.

So much to work on. How Leinster recover from this will define their season. If they lose badly against Bath, a sea change is needed. What's the harm in throwing in Tadhg Furlong, Ross Molony, Josh van der Flier, Luke McGrath and Garry Ringrose? They're Leinster's future. A rebuild around those guys may be required.

Kirchner at fullback, Madigan at out half, Kearney and McFadden are all proven international players, playing three of them out of position showed a lack of experience by the coaching team. We also had Sexton who on his day is the second best 10 in world rugby and a front and backrow full of proven internationals.

We we were exposed by a team who showed up and were better coached, man for man those sides should have been even and Leinster should have had better players in key positions.

Some change is needed for next week, we can't play half of our backline out of position and expect to win European games.

 

[TommiG88]

Leinster up against it now, however this group is open due to the quality of all sides.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Madigan, McFadden and D.Kearney have been HUGELY hyped in the past, funny to see people now saying they're average after a loss!

Madigan and McFadden were out of position so it's a fairish statement. DK is plain wrong, he's a far better player than he has shown since that Argentina game and should have been as good as, if not better than, his opposite number today.

 

[munstermuffin]

Kirchner at fullback, Madigan at out half, Kearney and McFadden are all proven international players, playing three of them out of position showed a lack of experience by the coaching team. We also had Sexton who on his day is the second best 10 in world rugby and a front and backrow full of proven internationals.

We we were exposed by a team who showed up and were better coached, man for man those sides should have been even and Leinster should have had better players in key positions.

Some change is needed for next week, we can't play half of our backline out of position and expect to win European games.

Just because you played at international level doesn't mean your proven.
Madigan played superb vs France but other than that has never convinced at 10 internationally or anywhere. The rest mentioned are in same boat. There's a difference between playing and being that standard. Keatley isn't an international 10 or Earls a proven international 13. Also it was players in their usual positions that were terrible. Dave Kearney had a mare in his regular role. Sexton was poor.
The other issue is last year MOC was used as a big excuse. But Leinster looked as bad as the MOC era if not worst.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Madigan, McFadden and D.Kearney have been HUGELY hyped in the past, funny to see people now saying they're average after a loss!

Madigan is a 10 who played at 15. McFadden is a better winger than centre. Dave Kearney is a very solid player but he's not a match winner. To compound that, the coaching team selected Zane Kirchner, a fullback, on the wing. It was a poorly selected side but it's fair to say that injuries enforced some of it. That takes nothing away from Wasps who could, and probably should, have had two more tries.

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But Leinster looked as bad as the MOC era if not worst.

Today, yes they did. Over the earlier part of the season they looked a lot better than the previous season.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Just because you played at international level doesn't mean your proven.
Madigan played superb vs France but other than that has never convinced at 10 internationally or anywhere. The rest mentioned are in same boat. There's a difference between playing and being that standard. Keatley isn't an international 10 or Earls a proven international 13. Also it was players in their usual positions that were terrible. Dave Kearney had a mare in his regular role. Sexton was poor.
The other issue is last year MOC was used as a big excuse. But Leinster looked as bad as the MOC era if not worst.

The number of caps Madigan has would suggest he's proven to someone he's international standard... They may be from the bench but he's playing for a reason. Ferg, DK, Madigan, Sexton, Reddan and Kirchner all have at least 10-15 international caps. Playing those players out of position and players not turning up was where that game was lost. Leinster had the players to win.

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Just because you played at international level doesn't mean your proven.
Madigan played superb vs France but other than that has never convinced at 10 internationally or anywhere. The rest mentioned are in same boat. There's a difference between playing and being that standard. Keatley isn't an international 10 or Earls a proven international 13. Also it was players in their usual positions that were terrible. Dave Kearney had a mare in his regular role. Sexton was poor.
The other issue is last year MOC was used as a big excuse. But Leinster looked as bad as the MOC era if not worst.

The number of caps Madigan has would suggest he's proven to someone he's international standard... They may be from the bench but he's playing for a reason. Ferg, DK, Madigan, Sexton, Reddan and Kirchner all have at least 10-15 international caps. Playing those players out of position and players not turning up was where that game was lost. Leinster had the players to win.