Champions Cup QF. 2 - Leinster Rugby v Wasps

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Right, no time now for a full diagnosis since clearly Wasps' needs are multiple and complex, but just have to say a proper congrats to Leinster who I think are a classy side. They showed us up today without being at their best, because they didn't need to be. They took their foot off the throat in the second half but we weren't good enough to make them pay for that.

Ringrose and Henshaw really looked the part today, class. Otherwise I thought Leinster were just good from 1 to 15 without being as I said on top of their game. Sean O'Brien had a banger and I'm glad to see him having a little more to say for himself.

As for us, as I say diagnosis will have to wait but our defence is absolute muck and has been since this new defensive coach whose name I can't even remember. Probably should go, even though I know I sound reactionary.

Hughes is having second season syndrome . Gonna have to add something else to his game cos he's been worked out . In a similar way to Billy had to

To be fair though the less England players that go on the lions tour the better it will be for us . No one with the majority of a lions tour ever comes out well the next year ....

You're right but in an odd way they have reverse situations; Billy was told to slim down and it revived him and made him a new player. Hughes slimmed down off his own volition I gather and now can't even get through a tackle without being held up.

BALLS!

 

[Midlander]

Leinster showed us up today in the pack, in the backs, game management, decisions and pretty much everything else. Upfront we looked toothless and lightweight, Hughes has regressed and apart from Launchbury & Taylor the pack need to have a look at themselves.

I have said it before and I will keep doing it, Cipriani is a liability. I am glad though that people are now seeing what I'm seeing ( thought it was me). We look so much better with Gopperth at 10 it's scary.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I know Gopperth didn't have the best time in Leinster but he's probably been the best back in the premiership this season

He got a terribly hard time from Leinster fans while he was here (me included). It wasn't easy replacing Johnny Sexton and he also had to deal with the muck served up under Matt O'Connor as coach. I'm glad Jimmy Gopperth is performing well for Wasps.

Lots to work on for Leinster despite some sublime play. Lineout malfunctioned again and first up tackling could have cost them at times. Apart from Joey Carbery, I thought Garry Ringrose, Robbie Henshaw, Dan Leavy, Jack Conan and Hayden Triggs were excellent.

 

[Midlander]

Leinster showed us up today in the pack, in the backs, game management, decisions and pretty much everything else. Upfront we looked toothless and lightweight, Hughes has regressed and apart from Launchbury & Taylor the pack need to have a look at themselves.

I have said it before and I will keep doing it, Cipriani is a liability. I am glad though that people are now seeing what I'm seeing ( thought it was me). We look so much better with Gopperth at 10 it's scary.

In all fairness though I enjoyed the game, leinster dominated us and I hope this has shown us the work needed to do to be really competitive against great clubs and teams.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Hughes is having second season syndrome . Gonna have to add something else to his game cos he's been worked out . In a similar way to Billy had to

To be fair though the less England players that go on the lions tour the better it will be for us . No one with the majority of a lions tour ever comes out well the next year ....

Funny enough it actually might work for us depending on who goes. If some of the old guard go that we are looking to replace anyway then it will force Jones' hand. If some of the young players we are trying to form a team around go though that may be a different matter. Last Lions Wales had the best XV but didn't have a reserve team, if they got injuries their performance went downhill very sharply. The core of the Welsh team that went on tour last time were young and without replacements. I think England are in quite a different situation. If Haskell, Wood (LOL), Hartley, Cole, Care/Youngs and Brown all go we will be forced to blood their replacements in Argentina, which may not have happened if they don't get selected.

 

[munstermuffin]

Didn't see it all but from bits. Leinster may have timed their peaking to perfection.
Carbery may be the 15 we have all being crying out for in Irish rugby. He is a gifted player. We all argued on Heaslip age and contract but regardless I feel Conan may overtake him in next year. A freakish man and Leavy is a great bit of stuff.
Seanie looked to be getting back to his best to plenty of gallops.
I'm most pleased for Lancaster though. I think he was shafted by England and is a superb coach. I've always been a fan and I think it's just reward for him and it's no coincidence his arrival coincided with Leinster play improving.

 

[corny]

Good win. Wasps were awfully passive in the first half but even when they upped the aggression in the second they were still comfortably second best in general play. I'd take Launchbury into a war but the rest of the forwards......

Leinster were very solid. I know Carberry fills the highlight reel so he gets MOTM but Triggs, O'Brien and Henshaw were brilliant. Henshaw gives us so much direction in attack, its unreal. He breaks the gainline and sets a good platform every time. When we run out of ideas we just chuck him the ball. Gopperth couldn't handle him.

 

[big ginger 8]

Missed the game would anyone be able to pm me a way to watch it back so I don't get the result spoiled please?

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

@big ginger 8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmljSMbsxw4

 

[Groundhog]

Missed the game would anyone be able to pm me a way to watch it back so I don't get the result spoiled please?

PM'dyou

 

[big ginger 8]

@big ginger 8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmljSMbsxw4

Thanks very much.

PM'dyou

Cheers, was an eloquent and heartfelt one.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Didn't see it all but from bits. Leinster may have timed their peaking to perfection.
Carbery may be the 15 we have all being crying out for in Irish rugby. He is a gifted player. We all argued on Heaslip age and contract but regardless I feel Conan may overtake him in next year. A freakish man and Leavy is a great bit of stuff.
Seanie looked to be getting back to his best to plenty of gallops.
I'm most pleased for Lancaster though. I think he was shafted by England and is a superb coach. I've always been a fan and I think it's just reward for him and it's no coincidence his arrival coincided with Leinster play improving.

Lancaster completely dug his own grave for England. In his last 18 months especially he didn't do an acceptable job of preparing the team, and his selections were sporadically poor.
He's a good part of a system but he's not an entire system in my opinion. There need to be other pieces around him. He's not a technician and he's not someone who gets the best out of players by identifying where they need to change or improve like you get with Schmidt or Eddie Jones.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Lancaster completely dug his own grave for England. In his last 18 months especially he didn't do an acceptable job of preparing the team, and his selections were sporadically poor.
He's a good part of a system but he's not an entire system in my opinion. There need to be other pieces around him. He's not a technician and he's not someone who gets the best out of players by identifying where they need to change or improve like you get with Schmidt or Eddie Jones.

I'd have to agree, at the start of the season I'd have been singing from the hymn sheet that Lancaster came in and made us class but he hasn't. He is brilliant at identifying which young players are ready to make the jump whereas I think Cullen and Dempsey were a bit cautious at times last year. He has nothing to do with the pack which has seen constant improvement under Leo after MOC had his forwards coach trying to do God knows what, that took a solid season like we had last year and a few bad defeats to get going though. Obviously that has allowed Dempsey a lot more leeway with the backs and they have started scoring like his 'A' team did for him. I imagine Lancaster and Dempsey work closely together but Lancaster probably has more of a say in individual training and mainly with just the young guys at that.
Then there is the difference in players, we had Madigan and Sexton as the squads only playmakers last year with Isa spending most his time on the wing, this season Sexton, Byrne, Carbery, Nacewa at 15 and Henshaw are all making big plays while we have actual finishers in Byrne, O'Loughlin, Carbery again (what a beautiful soul) and Ringrose. Defence, which is probably Lancaster's most influential area in the squad, has been shaky. He came here with such a low rep after 2015 any positive was going to be taken out of proportion but he's doing the job anyone shpuld have known he could do and excelling in a strong set up, he's no replacement for Schmidt. Working in development for a national set up or the sort of job he has with us now is perfect for him.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Question: Who'll be starting Winger in Usa and Japan this summer?

 

[munstermuffin]

Question: Who'll be starting Winger in Usa and Japan this summer?

View attachment 4970

No I think Dave K will be fit and rucks will be a big thing so he may get in.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Question: Who'll be starting Winger in Usa and Japan this summer?

View attachment 4970

Double post!!!! Mods, ban him!


Re. Lancaster you've hit something there on the head - he has a long track record of working with young players and taking them to a certain level. After all he's spent a lot of his career working with younger players. But he's absolutely not the man to take a successful international to the next level.

With England he seemed to get spooked by the options he had at his disposal and ended up not using any of them well enough. With a player base as large as ours you have to be pretty ruthless as I believe Eddie Jones will prove to be. You don't get the best out of talented players by giving them endless chances or by always showing loyalty despite players being in poor form. If you're not firm with the guys lucky enough to have the jersey, you'll never find an opportunity to make the changes which could improve the team. If you then suddenly change your tack you'll be seen as inconsistent and harsh by the players because they didn't expect it. Lancaster came to be a bit of a softy, a rep which he'll need to undo.

I won't rule out that he could take control of another national side later down the line, and do well at it, given a healthy structure and team round him.

 

[Groundhog]

Check your post Alpha. That's not a picture of Tommy Bowe or Dave Kearney? I wish Anthony Horgan was still with us. He would have got so many caps for Schmidt.

 

[Maverick1987]

Funny enough it actually might work for us depending on who goes. If some of the old guard go that we are looking to replace anyway then it will force Jones' hand. If some of the young players we are trying to form a team around go though that may be a different matter. Last Lions Wales had the best XV but didn't have a reserve team, if they got injuries their performance went downhill very sharply. The core of the Welsh team that went on tour last time were young and without replacements. I think England are in quite a different situation. If Haskell, Wood (LOL), Hartley, Cole, Care/Youngs and Brown all go we will be forced to blood their replacements in Argentina, which may not have happened if they don't get selected.

Yeh fair point . The only trouble is those you have mentioned probably won't go .... is there truth to the Argentinians not having their Jaguars players for the summer tour ?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Argentina played a much weaker side when we toured there last lions tour, didn't they?

 

[ratsapprentice]

Was missing most of their top players, but they had fewer "top" players last time around.