Charlie Hebdo Attack

[Feicarsinn]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europ...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Tragic news.

Whether we like to admit it or not, the time is fast approaching when the west has to properly confront the Islamic problem. While it's nice to roll out the worn cliché that the majority of Muslims condemn this sort of behaviour what we're seeing reported from the Islamic world these days is terrorist attacks such as these, ISIS beheading western journalists, killing street performers for magic tricks and generally treating the people within their borders like ****, widespread denial of basic human rights to women, radical preachers spreading hate and indoctrinating western Muslims against their own countries, civil war and general strife in Syria, Egypt, etc. and slavery in Qatar in preparation of the World Cup. I don't know what the solution is, but things cannot go on like they are now.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Saw a clip of them executing a policeman in the street.

Really boils my ****.

 

[psychic duck]

Disappointing so much media in the UK lacks the guts to show the cartoons and back free speech. Anyway, I believe this is what pîssed them off so much. '100 lashes if you don't die of laughter'.

 

[goodNumber10]

It has not been a good day.

 

[dasNdanger]

Very tragic indeed.


das

 

[McTallshort]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europ...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Tragic news.

Whether we like to admit it or not, the time is fast approaching when the west has to properly confront the Islamic problem. While it's nice to roll out the worn cliché that the majority of Muslims condemn this sort of behaviour what we're seeing reported from the Islamic world these days is terrorist attacks such as these, ISIS beheading western journalists, killing street performers for magic tricks and generally treating the people within their borders like ****, widespread denial of basic human rights to women, radical preachers spreading hate and indoctrinating western Muslims against their own countries, civil war and general strife in Syria, Egypt, etc. and slavery in Qatar in preparation of the World Cup. I don't know what the solution is, but things cannot go on like they are now.

How are we going to do that? Invade a couple of countries and bomb a slack handful more? We tried that already and things have got worse.

Very tragic news hope they catch them and soon.

 

[Peat]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europ...ng&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Tragic news.

Whether we like to admit it or not, the time is fast approaching when the west has to properly confront the Islamic problem. While it's nice to roll out the worn cliché that the majority of Muslims condemn this sort of behaviour what we're seeing reported from the Islamic world these days is terrorist attacks such as these, ISIS beheading western journalists, killing street performers for magic tricks and generally treating the people within their borders like ****, widespread denial of basic human rights to women, radical preachers spreading hate and indoctrinating western Muslims against their own countries, civil war and general strife in Syria, Egypt, etc. and slavery in Qatar in preparation of the World Cup. I don't know what the solution is, but things cannot go on like they are now.

What these people want is for people like yourself to start raising barriers between themselves and Islam. They want to make it Us and Them. They want to make it a big fight, they want people to blame Muslims in an unselective manner, they want European Muslims to feel different and other because people have it in for them. They want a confrontation.

Do not let them get what they want. Do not let them win.

Talking about a confrontation is very unhelpful. You seem to suggest some form of Western Intervention - the reality is Western Intervention is a huge part of what has led us to this pass. There is very little we can usefully do.

The most helpful thing the West can do in terms of curing the current problem of hardline Islamic fundamentalism fuelling abuses of human rights and terrorism is to curtail the current flood of Islamophobia. It's to step away from casting things as a conflict of West vs East. It is to ensure that liberal Muslims feel as respected and non-conflicted as possible, so they can deal with this problem. It's to accept that things will take time. It's to accept that they will have to find their own solutions.

And that is only possible if people stop bellowing at politicians to do something about these bloody Muslims.

It's not about confrontation. It's about reconciliation.

 

[goodNumber10]

putting the political discussions aside i don't know if you guys are following events here this evening but the images coming from Paris are absolutely f*cking amazing....

utterly incredible response to today's events...completely moved.

 

[dasNdanger]

What these people want is for people like yourself to start raising barriers between themselves and Islam. They want to make it Us and Them. They want to make it a big fight, they want people to blame Muslims in an unselective manner, they want European Muslims to feel different and other because people have it in for them. They want a confrontation.

Do not let them get what they want. Do not let them win.

Talking about a confrontation is very unhelpful. You seem to suggest some form of Western Intervention - the reality is Western Intervention is a huge part of what has led us to this pass. There is very little we can usefully do.

The most helpful thing the West can do in terms of curing the current problem of hardline Islamic fundamentalism fuelling abuses of human rights and terrorism is to curtail the current flood of Islamophobia. It's to step away from casting things as a conflict of West vs East. It is to ensure that liberal Muslims feel as respected and non-conflicted as possible, so they can deal with this problem. It's to accept that things will take time. It's to accept that they will have to find their own solutions.

And that is only possible if people stop bellowing at politicians to do something about these bloody Muslims.

It's not about confrontation. It's about reconciliation.

Though there is no perfect human solution, I think that the only way this sort of extremism is going to be stopped is from within the Muslim community, and Muslim governments must take the lead by refusing to tolerate or harbor such extremists.


das

 

[Peat]

Though there is no perfect human solution, I think that the only way this sort of extremism is going to be stopped is from within the Muslim community, and Muslim governments must take the lead by refusing to tolerate or harbor such extremists.


das

They won't though. There's a lot of them doing the opposite - and there's no use taking the moral high ground and going "They must", as a) They won't pay much attention b) It only feeds into the concept of a hypocritical and anti-Muslim west over there.

Should our governments by trying to gently pressure them into changes in the background? Sure, but doing it publicly is probably impossible, as they can't be seen to back down.

The best thing European governments can do is to look at ways of better integrating the next generations of Muslim. The current effects of previous mistakes must be ridden out for want of a better action, it's preventing future mistakes that should be the main objective.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Thoughts and prayers go towards those connected with everyone involved.

RIP.

 

[dasNdanger]

They won't though. There's a lot of them doing the opposite - and there's no use taking the moral high ground and going "They must", as a) They won't pay much attention b) It only feeds into the concept of a hypocritical and anti-Muslim west over there.

Should our governments by trying to gently pressure them into changes in the background? Sure, but doing it publicly is probably impossible, as they can't be seen to back down.

The best thing European governments can do is to look at ways of better integrating the next generations of Muslim. The current effects of previous mistakes must be ridden out for want of a better action, it's preventing future mistakes that should be the main objective.

Recently President Obama addressed the UN on this very subject, urging - almost demanding - that Muslim nations start taking a stand against extremism. Not sure if it will have any impact (no one takes the US seriously anymore), but after this event I wonder whether the UN will start putting pressure on countries that harbor terrorists, et al, or not.


das

 

[goodNumber10]

That's not much good if the terrorists are home grown.

I agree with peat.

 

[dasNdanger]

That's not much good if the terrorists are home grown.

I agree with peat.

But the home grown terrorists are looking to the Muslim countries for inspiration. Sure, it would be great to better integrate the next generation of Muslims, etc., but as long as their role models are being supported, sometimes even praised, in Muslim countries you will continue to have this divide.


das

 

[Gavin]

The issue, in my opinion, stems from the end of World War I and the dividing up of the old Ottoman Empire. This was led by the Western powers and caused them to re-write the borders in the Middle East in an attempt to gain control. Remember that the Ottoman Empire was, and I quote 'had been the leading Islamic state in geopolitical, cultural and ideological terms'. What ISIS is attempting to do in this area (of which I condone and I think their treatment of people and others is disgusting) is create another Islamic state which has no links to the Western powers who buggered it up in the first place.

 

[goodNumber10]

But the home grown terrorists are looking to the Muslim countries for inspiration. Sure, it would be great to better integrate the next generation of Muslims, etc., but as long as their role models are being supported, sometimes even praised, in Muslim countries you will continue to have this divide.


das

Not really.

Extremism isn't a geo-political thing in that sense. It may be masked up like that but it's not about an affinity with a particular state or country.

I don't really know how to explain it but there is a brilliant documentary called ,my brother the terrorist', track it down... It touches on radicalisation and what it means to these foreign fighters and home grown terrorists... It's seldom to do with religion.

 

[McTallshort]

Not really.

Extremism isn't a geo-political thing in that sense. It may be masked up like that but it's not about an affinity with a particular state or country.

I don't really know how to explain it but there is a brilliant documentary called ,my brother the terrorist', track it down... It touches on radicalisation and what it means to these foreign fighters and home grown terrorists... It's seldom to do with religion.

Nearly every mosque that has been raided by police, every School investigated for teaching extremist veiws and every publishing works that has been caught printing anti western material in in the UK has almost without exception been funded by Saudi Arabia.

So called home grown terroists (most who are currently being used as cannon fodder by ISIS in syria) are funded from abroad mainly Saudi Arabia and then are trained abroad in places like Pakistan and Libya. They are not home grown but home recruited and grown abroad.

 

[ENZED-88]

The issue, in my opinion, stems from the end of World War I and the dividing up of the old Ottoman Empire. This was led by the Western powers and caused them to re-write the borders in the Middle East in an attempt to gain control. Remember that the Ottoman Empire was, and I quote 'had been the leading Islamic state in geopolitical, cultural and ideological terms'. What ISIS is attempting to do in this area (of which I condone and I think their treatment of people and others is disgusting) is create another Islamic state which has no links to the Western powers who buggered it up in the first place.

I agree with you here on everything my man!!

 

[dragos03]

What a sad day. I'm afraid the winners from this massacre are radical and anti-EU parties in France (and Europe in general). The losers will be the muslim world (who will all be branded as terrorists) and the citizens of Europe (who will only lose in the end from the rise of the extremist parties).

But what were the French police and secret service doing? How is it possible that a very obvious target for terrorism to be attacked in daylight, in the heart of Paris, by guys in body armor with assault rifles? How could they run away from the scene? Especially since this comes after several armed attacks in France during the Christmas period.

 

[ENZED-88]

The issue, in my opinion, stems from the end of World War I and the dividing up of the old Ottoman Empire. This was led by the Western powers and caused them to re-write the borders in the Middle East in an attempt to gain control. Remember that the Ottoman Empire was, and I quote 'had been the leading Islamic state in geopolitical, cultural and ideological terms'. What ISIS is attempting to do in this area (of which I condone and I think their treatment of people and others is disgusting) is create another Islamic state which has no links to the Western powers who buggered it up in the first place.

I agree with you here on everything my man!!
The treatment of their own people is what I don't understand. Their resentment towards the rest of the western powers I do. Everything from seeing their own, in foreign countries treated the way they are by their adopted countries. The giving of Palestine to the jews to seeing Americas unwavering loyalty to Israel.
I just don't and never can understand the killing of their own by ISIS.