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Cheetahs and Kings booted from pro 14

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I feel sorry for the Cheetahs as they added to the competition. The Southern Kings were a joke and won't be missed.

This has the potential to be a game changer for the former Pro 14 in terms of revenue and bring them closer to the French and English leagues. Hopefully something can be negotiated with EPCR to expand the tournament permanently to 24 teams and get South African representation. Access to European markets can help South Africa grow its funding and may lead to more Springboks choosing to stay at home.

More South African teams means fewer draining trips to Europe will be needed for their players. Teams based in the major population centres in South Africa means European teams have fewer flights than when they travelled to play Southern Kings and Cheetahs.

This is a win-win for all parties in the new competition.
 

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Feel for the Cheetahs - they definitely added to the league on the pitch - although their massive stadium always looked like a ghost town.
 

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I think that's extremely harsh on the Cheetahs who played a nice brand of rugby and were good for the competition. As an already existing member they should have had priority over there other Saffa teams imo. The Kings' performances were awful and they were done anyway.
 

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Free State Cheetahs

The Cheetahs got ripped off. The decision by the SA Rugby general council isn't fair. :mad:
 
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Cheetahs fans/players etc must be raging.

It's very unfair. Not sure what the alternative is but being booted unceremoniously like this is harsh.
 

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Free State Cheetahs

Cheetahs fans/players etc must be raging.

It's very unfair. Not sure what the alternative is but being booted unceremoniously like this is harsh.

I saw on another thread that the Cheetahs were talking legal action, but I think that's no longer being considered.
 
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New Zealand says Super Rugby must 'adapt quickly' after South Africa bombshell https://www.news24.com/sport/rugby/...quickly-after-south-africa-bombshell-20200930
I found that statement cheeky to say the least. How I understood matters is we were brought to a very a clear understanding that our participation was no longer wanted. I expect it is a smart statement to try and curb the inevitable legal ramifications and try and place it at SARU's doorstep. I would not be surprised to find our administrators to actually be in the wrong legally speaking and having been naive on finer points. I hope Johan Rupert will be willing to bail SARU out if that were the case LOL.

That said, I am excited for Pro Rugby. I also believe Cheetahs and Kings (well I suppose the Kings cancelled themselves) out and the traditional big 4 in is best for both the competition and SA LONG TERM.

True, Free State is a hot bed for talent BUT I don't believe their exclusion will change anything in that regard. They will play somewhere and they've always managed (along with the Griquas and Pumas) to find 'value' players. Fact of the matter is the other 4 are just better placed in all considerations. History of greater competitiveness rule the Cheeatahs out- Sharks top for win ratio, Stormers 2nd, Bulls have actual titles and the Lions have been the most recently competitive and have a S10 title. Geography counts against the Cheetahs. The 4 big teams are in the 4 biggest urban sentras. Less isolated and bigger fan bases. Stormers will fill stadia even playing poorly. Even a fit and firing Cheetahs struggle to even 1/4 fill an overly large stadium for the area. Don't get me wrong, I feel for the players and fans and this is the tougher move but the better one greater picture in mind.
 

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The Cheetahs got ripped off. The decision by the SA Rugby general council isn't fair. :mad:
It's as fair as it can get, to be honest.

There are over about 14-20 people on the council voting on these decisions. And usually the smaller unions representatives are a strong united front against the big teams.

My guess is that SARU explained the situation, and how to proceed, and how the earnings will be divided amongst all parties, and how SARU will use the earnings to assist the Cheetahs financially as well as the other unions.

The possibility is there, that SARU has another tournament lined up for the Cheetahs, and perhaps the Pumas and the Griquas, which will be both competitive for them but also be a lucrative deal for them.
 

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Can definitely see myself going out to SA on one of Ster's tours in the post Covid years now, really excited about this. Euro involvement would be great but the group structure of home and away fixtures would surely have to change, SA teams playing back to back games in Europe and then SA or vice versa within 9 days of each other three times in four months on top of Pro16 fixtures is a lot.
 

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I found that statement cheeky to say the least. How I understood matters is we were brought to a very a clear understanding that our participation was no longer wanted. I expect it is a smart statement to try and curb the inevitable legal ramifications and try and place it at SARU's doorstep. I would not be surprised to find our administrators to actually be in the wrong legally speaking and having been naive on finer points. I hope Johan Rupert will be willing to bail SARU out if that were the case LOL.

That said, I am excited for Pro Rugby. I also believe Cheetahs and Kings (well I suppose the Kings cancelled themselves) out and the traditional big 4 in is best for both the competition and SA LONG TERM.

True, Free State is a hot bed for talent BUT I don't believe their exclusion will change anything in that regard. They will play somewhere and they've always managed (along with the Griquas and Pumas) to find 'value' players. Fact of the matter is the other 4 are just better placed in all considerations. History of greater competitiveness rule the Cheeatahs out- Sharks top for win ratio, Stormers 2nd, Bulls have actual titles and the Lions have been the most recently competitive and have a S10 title. Geography counts against the Cheetahs. The 4 big teams are in the 4 biggest urban sentras. Less isolated and bigger fan bases. Stormers will fill stadia even playing poorly. Even a fit and firing Cheetahs struggle to even 1/4 fill an overly large stadium for the area. Don't get me wrong, I feel for the players and fans and this is the tougher move but the better one greater picture in mind.
in all fairness, from what i saw it was largely the media that was saying that, think NZR had always kept to a message of "SAANZAR is still strong and any plans we very much limited to COVID times" as in a comp anywhere outside Australasia isn;t possible whilst quarantines are needed
 

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So it's a mixed bad regarding the Cheetahs I never gave a damn about the kings as we now have their catchment area at the Sharks.

The Cheetahs had the following going for them.

-Were kicked out of Super rugby, went to pro 14 as a compromise
-did very well under circumstances in the new territory that is pro 14
-started recruiting well and dealing with the bad hand that was dealt
-won the Currie cup
-recruited some big foreign players such as Frans Steyn, Ruan Pienaar with guys like Johan Goosen on the way
-secured big sponsorships
- has got a very loyal following especially under Afrikaner plattelanders and Vrystaat boere
-these guys don't necessarily go to the stadium but packs out Bars and DStv subscriptions from Bloemfontein to Potchefstroom
-hotbed for South African rugby
-has an illustrious history in South Africa
-contributes many more Springboks than the Lions
-its going to dissuade many more Afrikaans platteland kids from rugby
-South African provincial rugby must brace itself for huge fan losses with the dissent towards SARU
-can be seen as a monetary decision over a cultural and sporting decision


In no uncertain terms do I feel that the Cheetahs was dealt with unfairly, they deserved it 120 percent more than the Lions, historically speaking the Lions got nothing on the Cheetahs, their fans are non existent. Have you ever walked in to a bar and there is a majority Lions fans? Even in Joburg it's rare, heck it's been years since I've seen an actual lions fan in person. But go anywhere in the free State and north west and you see Cheetahs flags and fans packing in bars. The Lions has got no culture compared to the Cheetahs their fans also don't go to the stadium. Geographically Gauteng is over served.

South African rugby will be poorer for this decision, I can just hope that the Cheetahs can play their way back to the pro rugby series.
 

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I found that statement cheeky to say the least. How I understood matters is we were brought to a very a clear understanding that our participation was no longer wanted. I expect it is a smart statement to try and curb the inevitable legal ramifications and try and place it at SARU's doorstep. I would not be surprised to find our administrators to actually be in the wrong legally speaking and having been naive on finer points. I hope Johan Rupert will be willing to bail SARU out if that were the case LOL.

That said, I am excited for Pro Rugby. I also believe Cheetahs and Kings (well I suppose the Kings cancelled themselves) out and the traditional big 4 in is best for both the competition and SA LONG TERM.

True, Free State is a hot bed for talent BUT I don't believe their exclusion will change anything in that regard. They will play somewhere and they've always managed (along with the Griquas and Pumas) to find 'value' players. Fact of the matter is the other 4 are just better placed in all considerations. History of greater competitiveness rule the Cheeatahs out- Sharks top for win ratio, Stormers 2nd, Bulls have actual titles and the Lions have been the most recently competitive and have a S10 title. Geography counts against the Cheetahs. The 4 big teams are in the 4 biggest urban sentras. Less isolated and bigger fan bases. Stormers will fill stadia even playing poorly. Even a fit and firing Cheetahs struggle to even 1/4 fill an overly large stadium for the area. Don't get me wrong, I feel for the players and fans and this is the tougher move but the better one greater picture in mind.
It's a very cheeky statement, I agree. It's because of them that we left. But hey let them calm themselves like that, they are in a much worse position without us. Maybe we now will have financial pulling power to lure some All Blacks on to South Africa.
 

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So it's a mixed bad regarding the Cheetahs I never gave a damn about the kings as we now have their catchment area at the Sharks.

The Cheetahs had the following going for them.

-Were kicked out of Super rugby, went to pro 14 as a compromise
-did very well under circumstances in the new territory that is pro 14
-started recruiting well and dealing with the bad hand that was dealt
-won the Currie cup
-recruited some big foreign players such as Frans Steyn, Ruan Pienaar with guys like Johan Goosen on the way
-secured big sponsorships
- has got a very loyal following especially under Afrikaner plattelanders and Vrystaat boere
-these guys don't necessarily go to the stadium but packs out Bars and DStv subscriptions from Bloemfontein to Potchefstroom
-hotbed for South African rugby
-has an illustrious history in South Africa
-contributes many more Springboks than the Lions
-its going to dissuade many more Afrikaans platteland kids from rugby
-South African provincial rugby must brace itself for huge fan losses with the dissent towards SARU
-can be seen as a monetary decision over a cultural and sporting decision


In no uncertain terms do I feel that the Cheetahs was dealt with unfairly, they deserved it 120 percent more than the Lions, historically speaking the Lions got nothing on the Cheetahs, their fans are non existent. Have you ever walked in to a bar and there is a majority Lions fans? Even in Joburg it's rare, heck it's been years since I've seen an actual lions fan in person. But go anywhere in the free State and north west and you see Cheetahs flags and fans packing in bars. The Lions has got no culture compared to the Cheetahs their fans also don't go to the stadium. Geographically Gauteng is over served.

South African rugby will be poorer for this decision, I can just hope that the Cheetahs can play their way back to the pro rugby series.

You are trying to oversimplify things here, and some of these things you mentioned are just not true, at least not in the modern era of rugby.

Dissuade more platteland kids from rugby?? That is absolute nonsense. Most platteland kids who takes up the sport and become professionals don't mind playing for other unions, as long as they can have their foot in the door. How many Grey Bloem players end up at other unions?? And how many of them are actually from the Free State? Here's an example, Corniel Els, who plays for the Bulls went to Grey College, but he's actually from Polokwane, but his father saw his potential and sent him to Grey to get a chance to be more noticable by scouts.

And it's not like the Cheetahs are now going into obscurity and won't play any rugby. They will play in the upcoming Currie Cup and Super Rugby Unleashed tournaments. And they will still be there for next year's local tournaments as well.

And SARU wouldn't have come to this decision lightly, as they know of the legal ramifications it could potentially have for them, so there must have been some sort of discussion to get the Cheetahs on board with this decision, otherwise we would have seen a lot more toys being thrown out of the cot, as Harold Verster isn't one to keep quiet.

Huge fan losses and dissent? Can't see that either. This pandemic has made people hungry to watch rugby, and get to social sporting events. If anything, this pandemic will cause more bums in the stadium than in the past, because as the saying goes "you don't know what you miss, until it's gone", I know a lot of people who hardly ever go to stadiums to watch rugby, signed up for the B&I Lions lottery.

The problem is that no matter how you slice it, we have too many teams, and not enough spots. It would be better to use the big 4 in this tournament for a chance to win silverware, and make it a profitable journey.

Plus Bloemfontein isn't doing itself favours with it not having an international airport, something the 4 others all have.
 

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Which part do you think is untrue? I'm not necessarily talking about the young kids who might have rugby careers ahead of them, they will find unions to play for. I'm referring to the fans. The kids who will be the fans of Tommorow. Do you really think a kid who was brought up in Vrystaat or North West with his father supporting the Cheetahs will now go and say "it's cool, I will just support the Lions or Bulls" no they won't, these people there might not even watch the rugby such as the pro 14, their kids won't be exposed to it anymore.

Can you honestly argue that you think the Lions are better supported than the Cheetahs ? If not is the monetary side really that important to you? I for one will take the monetary side into my decision making yes, but the Lions and Cheetahs are really touch and go so much so that the cultural aspect is much more prominent when a decision about the two is made.

Lions better chances of winning silverware? Say that to the Currie cup champions. I am not happy that this area of the country is continually disregarded, even when they have worked hard to make a success.

Can the Cheetahs maintain their fanbase with only Currie cup rugby ?
 
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It's as fair as it can get, to be honest.
Don't cheetahs have a contract to be in pro rugby until 2023?


Really hope this doesn't mean we see the super rugby sides in European cups
 

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As I see it the Cheetahs will be fine. Cutting one of the other unions would be just as disruptive. There is no scenario where all SA teams are happy with the 4 spots being a hard cap.

Long term SARU has to develop a viable Eastern Province franchise even if that means direct ownership or going the private route. We saw as we all feared that leaving it to the EPRU and its politicians didn't pan out for the region. Then we need to find spots for the Cheetahs, (Kings), Pumas and Griquas in a tournament running parrallel to the Pro16. Possibly include the Jaguares and a 2nd Argentinian team (though I believe Argentina should rather look at the Americas long term) or look more local towards African countries. Maybe one each from Namibia, Zim, maybe Moz or Botswana. And rugby is big in Madagascar and Kenya local a little further.
 

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I found that statement cheeky to say the least. How I understood matters is we were brought to a very a clear understanding that our participation was no longer wanted. I expect it is a smart statement to try and curb the inevitable legal ramifications and try and place it at SARU's doorstep. I would not be surprised to find our administrators to actually be in the wrong legally speaking and having been naive on finer points. I hope Johan Rupert will be willing to bail SARU out if that were the case LOL.

That said, I am excited for Pro Rugby. I also believe Cheetahs and Kings (well I suppose the Kings cancelled themselves) out and the traditional big 4 in is best for both the competition and SA LONG TERM.

True, Free State is a hot bed for talent BUT I don't believe their exclusion will change anything in that regard. They will play somewhere and they've always managed (along with the Griquas and Pumas) to find 'value' players. Fact of the matter is the other 4 are just better placed in all considerations. History of greater competitiveness rule the Cheeatahs out- Sharks top for win ratio, Stormers 2nd, Bulls have actual titles and the Lions have been the most recently competitive and have a S10 title. Geography counts against the Cheetahs. The 4 big teams are in the 4 biggest urban sentras. Less isolated and bigger fan bases. Stormers will fill stadia even playing poorly. Even a fit and firing Cheetahs struggle to even 1/4 fill an overly large stadium for the area. Don't get me wrong, I feel for the players and fans and this is the tougher move but the better one greater picture in mind.


I would guess (but don't know) that the obligation is on SARU to enter 4 teams. So therefore they could enter Cheetahs, Griquas, Pumas and 1
 
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