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Cheetahs and Kings booted from pro 14

TheOvalBall

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I'm happy Super Rugby has ended. It's been going on too long, and there is now much more weight to SA and NZ and SA and Aus matches and even with Argentina.
Kings will take time to rebuild. Two of my uncles and Danie Gerber and two other ex-EP players met with EP CEO Andre Rademan to discuss the future of EP Rugby as they were very concerned. Apparently, talks went really well.

Cheetahs need to be included in Pro competition somehow. SARU still has to meet again, so maybe they will see the harshness of their decision regarding the Cheetahs.
 

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Which part do you think is untrue? I'm not necessarily talking about the young kids who might have rugby careers ahead of them, they will find unions to play for. I'm referring to the fans. The kids who will be the fans of Tommorow. Do you really think a kid who was brought up in Vrystaat or North West with his father supporting the Cheetahs will now go and say "it's cool, I will just support the Lions or Bulls" no they won't, these people there might not even watch the rugby such as the pro 14, their kids won't be exposed to it anymore.

Can you honestly argue that you think the Lions are better supported than the Cheetahs ? If not is the monetary side really that important to you? I for one will take the monetary side into my decision making yes, but the Lions and Cheetahs are really touch and go so much so that the cultural aspect is much more prominent when a decision about the two is made.

Lions better chances of winning silverware? Say that to the Currie cup champions. I am not happy that this area of the country is continually disregarded, even when they have worked hard to make a success.

Can the Cheetahs maintain their fanbase with only Currie cup rugby ?

The Lions have a bigger fanbase than the cheetahs. Definitely. But the Cheetahs are everyone's 2nd team. They are the underdog everyone loves. So while you might see guys being supportive of the cheetahs, they aren't their first choice team. When the Lions hosted the Super Rugby Semis and Finals they had sold stadiums for Ellis Park, a stadium which usually only sells out for Springbok tests. I can't remember when was the last time I saw Bloemfontein Stadium sold out. And this is one of the main issues, the bums in the seats at the stadiums. The Cheetahs have a very poor record when it comes to attendance to their home matches, with only Currie Cup finals drawing a big enough crowd.

Which age group are you talking about here with regards to kids. As it's a very fine line you are contesting. Most young kids will pick the same team as their father's supporting. Teenagers will either stick to that team or jump ship, mostly because of a player they really love, or because they have an estranged relationship with their father and doesn't want to support the same team his supporting.

And it's not like the Cheetahs are going into limbo. This article says that the Cheetahs will be part of a Super 8 Competition that will secure them of additional income:

So there was a compromise made, and the Cheetahs agreed to the arrangement, so it doesn't sound like anybody should be angry or cause riots. It sounds to me like an amicable solution was found by all parties. What this Super 8 tournament will be however, is not clear yet.

It's unfortunate for the Cheetahs, yes, and I feel sorry for them, but they kind of knew it was coming. Remember when the initial agreement was made to send the Cheetahs and the Kings up north, SARU said that they will be sent there to test the waters, and see if it's more feasible for SA Rugby, than Super Rugby. So it's basically that they were the Recon team sent out ahead of the army...
 

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I would guess (but don't know) that the obligation is on SARU to enter 4 teams. So therefore they could enter Cheetahs, Griquas, Pumas and 1
I wouldn't know the specifics (whether the 4 SA teams are specified or if SA can nominate ANY 4 teams) but that would be good for the Cheetahs though I expect the others will balk at SA sending our "dregs" to Super Rugby. If anything it seems NZ at least want it smaller and don't even want all the Aus teams in it.
 

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I wouldn't know the specifics (whether the 4 SA teams are specified or if SA can nominate ANY 4 teams) but that would be good for the Cheetahs though I expect the others will balk at SA sending our "dregs" to Super Rugby. If anything it seems NZ at least want it smaller and don't even want all the Aus teams in it.
AFAIK it's the same sort of agreement that SANZAAR has with each Union that the PRO14 has with theirs. In that SARU signs the agreements with the executive body, and SARU decides which franchises plays where. Then SARU makes agreements with that franchise as to seperate agreements for the franchise.

So there could be a possibility in the near future where, should we remain part of SANZAAR, and Super Rugby for that matter, that the Stormers and the Sharks and the Griquas and the Pumas play Super Rugby, and the Bulls, Lions, Cheetahs and Another team play PRO14...
 

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AFAIK it's the same sort of agreement that SANZAAR has with each Union that the PRO14 has with theirs. In that SARU signs the agreements with the executive body, and SARU decides which franchises plays where. Then SARU makes agreements with that franchise as to seperate agreements for the franchise.

So there could be a possibility in the near future where, should we remain part of SANZAAR, and Super Rugby for that matter, that the Stormers and the Sharks and the Griquas and the Pumas play Super Rugby, and the Bulls, Lions, Cheetahs and Another team play PRO14...
If that is the case then seemingly we have legs to stand on and can eat our cake AND have it. TBH I'd rather go full tilt in one of the two, probably ProX as we have done. Otherwise you lose the big 4 playing each other in premier competition.

All 8 are involved in Currie Cup in any case. I'd rather go strength vs strength.
 

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If that is the case then seemingly we have legs to stand on and can eat our cake AND have it. TBH I'd rather go full tilt in one of the two, probably ProX as we have done. Otherwise you lose the big 4 playing each other in premier competition.

All 8 are involved in Currie Cup in any case. I'd rather go strength vs strength.

Either way, it'll be a balancing act. But what is clear is that the intent of SARU is to have SA Rugby in a strong financial position, whilst also having quality over quantity (something they didn't value in the past).

The idea, and this has been a clear motivation from Rassie, since he took over, is to try and curb mass exodus, while also improving the youth ranks coming through.

I'm wondering about this Super 8 Tournament though. Could it be something with the English tier 2 sides?
 

TRF_stormer2010

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Well, I am all for quality over quantity and getting in a better financial position. Think the ship is being well steered given our unique circumstances.
 

munstermuffin

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This is great as full strength SA teams will benefit us as a league and the way they set it up with teams travel arrangements etc has been superb. Every team from here loved it. Only complaint was from Leinster or Munster in having to do the trip for 2 weeks before European Cup knockout. But that was more as it is hard to find balance when a limited squad can travel.

But looking forward to it.
 

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This is great as full strength SA teams will benefit us as a league and the way they set it up with teams travel arrangements etc has been superb. Every team from here loved it. Only complaint was from Leinster or Munster in having to do the trip for 2 weeks before European Cup knockout. But that was more as it is hard to find balance when a limited squad can travel.

But looking forward to it.

Well one thing that might change is the squads touring to SA. As it won't be just a 2 week tour and would now be a month tour like the SA sides did in the Super Rugby tournament to Australia and NZ. And that could be testing the NH sides in that they can't afford to send a limited squad over, with the idea of possibly easier wins like against the Kings.

To play against these SA sides at their home base is a much tougher prospect. I'm also very interested to see how the NH sides will cope in Durban with it's constant humidity all year and the heat in the summer.
 

sugary tae

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I think it’s win win actually.

pro14 get a huge influx of quality players. Lose their quest team by far and a mid ranker and add 4 teams that on paper are playoff teams at least.
SA brings its derbies and because it’s now the only game in town will hopefully bring the viewership figures (tv money and sponsorship etc rely totally on this !)

saffers get a league with two healthy currencies and a league where ALL home and away games can be played at peak viewership times for all sides.

Altitude and heat will affect European players while sloshing in the muck will be a newer experience for some.

Makes the pro 14 teams a lot less Financially vulnerable for the next time the English or french spivs throw their toys out of the pram. Not as dependent on monies from European games.

It’s probably less time travelling than super rugby and the venues of Cape Town etc will hopefully bring more travelling support. Covid apart lots of people travel to RSA (myself included) for amazing holidays. If you could tie in a match or two I think that becomes more attractive. Munster took 300 people approx for season 1 v kings and cheetahs.

it will bring a lot of quality play to the league. It will bring on the young developing Irish welsh and Scottish players certainly being exposed to this high class level of opposition.

nothing is perfect but I think this is a good idea
 

rN_X

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Sorry about the Cheethas. But hell I am SUPER SUPER SUPER excited for this !!!!!!!!
 

unrated

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Sorry about the Cheethas. But hell I am SUPER SUPER SUPER excited for this !!!!!!!!
You mean PRO-perly excited ! Ok I apologize it's a very bad joke but could not resist
 

unrated

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I'm also very interested to see how the NH sides will cope in Durban with it's constant humidity all year and the heat in the summer.

It's going to bring an interesting dynamic, going to the Highveld for the Lions and Bulls and then playing in the unbearable summer. The Sharks themselves have never had to play competitive games in the Durban Summer before, but most of their Pre season training has been done in it over the last 20 years, so it can be a huge advantage also.

We have all heard that saying: "but can Messi do it on a cold night in Stoke"

Now comes
"But can Sexton do it on a hot humid day in Durban" (or whoever is considered the best player in the pro 14 at this point in time)
 

The Alpha Bro

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Writing to Stu Lancaster now to let him know the gingers should be saved for Cape Town and Jo'burg
 

Tigs Man

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On one hand it's a sad ending to Super rugby.
Despite it being a shadow of it's former self, watching the Super 12 was most likely the most enjoyable thing.
It was in my mind the peak competition format.

George Smith, Larkham, Giteau and Gregan Brumbies
Rocky Elsom, Phil Waugh and Matt Dunning Waratahs
Doug Howlett, Joe Rokocoko and Carlos Spencers Blues
Aaron Mauger, Dan Carter and Mccaw Crusader
Botha, Matfield and Habana Bulls

It honestly had some of the most enjoyable rugby moments I can remember.


On the other hand I really hope it takes Pro rugby to the next level of seriousness because honestly bar the few games it's boring to watch as a neutral well for me at least.
 

mdaclarke

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I think it’s win win actually.

pro14 get a huge influx of quality players. Lose their quest team by far and a mid ranker and add 4 teams that on paper are playoff teams at least.
SA brings its derbies and because it’s now the only game in town will hopefully bring the viewership figures (tv money and sponsorship etc rely totally on this !)

saffers get a league with two healthy currencies and a league where ALL home and away games can be played at peak viewership times for all sides.

Altitude and heat will affect European players while sloshing in the muck will be a newer experience for some.

Makes the pro 14 teams a lot less Financially vulnerable for the next time the English or french spivs throw their toys out of the pram. Not as dependent on monies from European games.

It’s probably less time travelling than super rugby and the venues of Cape Town etc will hopefully bring more travelling support. Covid apart lots of people travel to RSA (myself included) for amazing holidays. If you could tie in a match or two I think that becomes more attractive. Munster took 300 people approx for season 1 v kings and cheetahs.

it will bring a lot of quality play to the league. It will bring on the young developing Irish welsh and Scottish players certainly being exposed to this high class level of opposition.

nothing is perfect but I think this is a good idea

This, I imagine there will be tourist packages for Rugby Fans (and their families), good be a good money spinner for the South African Tourist industry
 

rugbeian_usa

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i-will-not-support-any-sa-team-again-fans-divided-over-expanded-pro14-move-that-would-make-the-cheetahs-homeless/
 

rugbeian_usa

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If that is the case then seemingly we have legs to stand on and can eat our cake AND have it. TBH I'd rather go full tilt in one of the two, probably ProX as we have done. Otherwise you lose the big 4 playing each other in premier competition.

All 8 are involved in Currie Cup in any case. I'd rather go strength vs strength.
And it would be poetic justice if the Cheetahs were to win it. I know it's not likely, but I'd love to see it happen.
 

Kiwiwomble

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On one hand it's a sad ending to Super rugby.
Despite it being a shadow of it's former self, watching the Super 12 was most likely the most enjoyable thing.
It was in my mind the peak competition format.


George Smith, Larkham, Giteau and Gregan Brumbies
Rocky Elsom, Phil Waugh and Matt Dunning Waratahs
Doug Howlett, Joe Rokocoko and Carlos Spencers Blues
Aaron Mauger, Dan Carter and Mccaw Crusader
Botha, Matfield and Habana Bulls

It honestly had some of the most enjoyable rugby moments I can remember.


On the other hand I really hope it takes Pro rugby to the next level of seriousness because honestly bar the few games it's boring to watch as a neutral well for me at least.
I think most people agree on that, all the competition/team changes, for whats ever reasons, really have a lot to answer for
 

unrated

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And it would be poetic justice if the Cheetahs were to win it. I know it's not likely, but I'd love to see it happen.
Do you not already consider it poetic injustice that the defending Currie cup champions are being kicked out?
 

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