Chiefs vs Toulon

[Packman]

Well, I didn't see another thread so I'm going for it.

Unions answer to League's World Club Challenge has got the backing from the NZRFU. Even I, a rugby league lightweight who didn;t even bother watching last weekend's world cup final, always make a point of catching the world club challenge. Have done since St Helens beat a Queensland Cowboys team with the likes of Wendel Sailor in his element (Sailor never really cut it in union)

So yeah, I'm a fan of the concept. I think the northern hem sides will be more competative because they play as a team week in week out. northern hem test sides always play alot like individuals for the first few test matches, one of the strengths of say, the All Blacks is how seamlessly they go from club to country. so bring on the match, I think Toulon may shock a few people.
.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well, I didn't see another thread so I'm going for it.

Unions answer to League's World Club Challenge has got the backing from the NZRFU. Even I, a rugby league lightweight who didn;t even bother watching last weekend's world cup final, always make a point of catching the world club challenge. Have done since St Helens beat a Queensland Cowboys team with the likes of Wendel Sailor in his element (Sailor never really cut it in union)

So yeah, I'm a fan of the concept. I think the northern hem sides will be more competative because they play as a team week in week out. northern hem test sides always play alot like individuals for the first few test matches, one of the strengths of say, the All Blacks is how seamlessly they go from club to country. so bring on the match, I think Toulon may shock a few people.
.

I like the idea too. But the Chiefs are a franchise and Toulon is a club. So actually it should be Waikato vs. Toulon...

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

If Toulon came away with the win it shouldn't shock anybody - bearing in mind they have cheque-booked their way to the 2009 World XV.
I wouldn't want Toulon to be held up as the best the north can offer - they don't embody the principles of growing talent and slowly building a squad. I'd much rather see Clermont Auvergne or Leinster playing a fixture like this.

 

[TRF_heineken]

If Toulon came away with the win it shouldn't shock anybody - bearing in mind they have cheque-booked their way to the 2009 World XV.
I wouldn't want Toulon to be held up as the best the north can offer - they don't embody the principles of growing talent and slowly building a squad. I'd much rather see Clermont Auvergne or Leinster playing a fixture like this.

Because Zane Kirchner, Richardt Strauss, Jimmy Gopperth and Lote Tuqiri are the prime examples of growing talent...

Every Proffessional team in the main leagues are guilty of buying players and to build a squad around the players they have...

 

[lynam1104]

Because Zane Kirchner, Richardt Strauss, Jimmy Gopperth and Lote Tuqiri are the prime examples of growing talent...

Every Proffessional team in the main leagues are guilty of buying players and to build a squad around the players they have...

But not to the extent of Toulon who have one homegrown player maybe starting for them, whereas Leinster's firs choice team would be mostly homegrown but supplemented by foreign talent.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

The Chiefs aren't a team full of stars, even Messam and Cruden are only 2nd choice test players. In fact I'd say only Brodie Retallick is assured a starting AB spot but boy, do they know how to string movements together.

If the game wasn't in France and essentially a pre-season game for them I'd back the Chiefs to take it.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Because Zane Kirchner, Richardt Strauss, Jimmy Gopperth and Lote Tuqiri are the prime examples of growing talent...

Every Proffessional team in the main leagues are guilty of buying players and to build a squad around the players they have...

Those select examples don't defeat the fact that leinster look very much like the Ireland national side, and their foreign imports are choice individual players to support the core squad - which I agree is fine. Meanwhile Chiefs are a predominantly New Zealand-born group of players - can't comment on their regionalism but because of the link with waikato and the strong cultural identity there I would assume there is some reasonable cross-over.

Toulon I would guess are about 50/50 French/Imports - and those imports are players with a certain amount in common - players who have already reached the peak of their game either now or sometime in the past and most of whom are 'stars'. I doubt many of those French are from Provence or the cote d'azur...


Just looked up Toulon squad:

17 French: 22 Foreign

 

[Packman]

I recall this year's super rugby semi final with the crusaders bashing the hell out of the chiefs but the sheer courage and togetherness helping Chiefs get the win. I think toulon will also batter them about and then it'll be all down to the weather and what tricks Matt Giteau has up his sleave.

of course if Laporte picks Michalak at ten like he his last weekend then the Chiefs will win by 50 pts!

Seriously though I'm already stoked about seeing this game. I can also see HenryChinaski's point of view, but I would encourage Leinster and co to prove him right on the pitch though. Toulon deserved to win the eurocup last year. Leinster most certainly did not and clermont bottled it again!

 

[lynam1104]

I think logically I would back Toulon to win this game, middle of the season players would be working well as a group and in combination whereas the chiefs probable won't have some of their keys guys available and won't have had time to work as a team.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

Both teams have a handful of handsome blokes.

 

[Big Ewis]

RCT ftw.

 

[Tony Manx]

But not to the extent of Toulon who have one homegrown player maybe starting for them, whereas Leinster's firs choice team would be mostly homegrown but supplemented by foreign talent.

Actually, only two weeks ago the LNR President (a USAP man) announced that Toulon fielded an average 12.5 French qualified players in their match day squads over the last season which is higher than any other team in the Top 14!!

Excuse my ignorance on this match but is this a proposed or agreed fixture and what is the date and venue in that case?

 

[ianw16]

Well, let's just hope our "French" friends do better than the last time they tried this lark!

From The Independent, 1997; http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby-union-roundup-brive-out-with-the-washing-1280240.html

THE Super 12 ***le-holders Auckland Blues destroyed the European Cup champions Brive 47-11 in what amounted to the unofficial world club championship in France yesterday.

The centre Lee Stensness led the Auckland charge with a hat-trick of tries. Auckland, who narrowly beat Harlequins in midweek, were stronger, faster, more skilled technically and more cunning strategically.

"It was like spending 80 minutes in a washing machine," Brive's captain, Alain Penaud, said after the New Zealand side ran in six tries to one. Brive, who humbled Leicester in the European Cup final last month, were handed a rugby lesson which again demonstrated the superiority of sides from the Southern Hemisphere - highlighted by a dazzling individual try from the 23-year-old wing Joeli Vidiri.

"It was like being run over by a bus a hundred times." said Penaud. "The 101st time, the tackling gets a bit clumsy." Auckland now travel to South Africa to begin their Super 12 ***le defence.


I can't remember exact dates, but I remember reading that it falls on a 6n weekend, so any Toulon internationals picked in that tournament will not be available.
Chiefs comfortably if they take it seriously and are close to full strength.

BTW; I recall that the Blues drew that opening Super 12 game 40-40 against the Bulls!

 

[lynam1104]

Actually, only two weeks ago the LNR President (a USAP man) announced that Toulon fielded an average 12.5 French qualified players in their match day squads over the last season which is higher than any other team in the Top 14!!

Excuse my ignorance on this match but is this a proposed or agreed fixture and what is the date and venue in that case?

I find that impossible to believe

 

[nickdnz]

I like the idea too. But the Chiefs are a franchise and Toulon is a club. So actually it should be Waikato vs. Toulon...

Waikato is a union and not a club. If you're getting nick picky it would be like Toulon vs Hamilton Marist...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

What would probable line-ups look like though?

I have no idea what to expect from RCT. For example, how do you pick 3 starting loose forwards from;

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[TD="align: left"]Steffon Armitage
[/TD]
[TD]Flanker
[/TD]
[TD] England
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[TR="class: vcard agent"]
[TD="align: left"]Virgile Bruni
[/TD]
[TD]Flanker
[/TD]
[TD] France
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: vcard agent"]
[TD="align: left"]Juan Martín Fernández Lobbe
[/TD]
[TD]Flanker
[/TD]
[TD] Argentina
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: vcard agent"]
[TD="align: left"]Pierrick Gunther
[/TD]
[TD]Flanker
[/TD]
[TD] France
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: vcard agent"]
[TD="align: left"]Facundo Isa
[/TD]
[TD]Flanker
[/TD]
[TD] Argentina
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: vcard agent"]
[TD="align: left"]Danie Rossouw
[/TD]
[TD]Flanker
[/TD]
[TD] South Africa
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: vcard agent"]
[TD="align: left"]Juan Smith
[/TD]
[TD]Flanker
[/TD]
[TD] South Africa
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: vcard agent"]
[TD="align: left"]Chris Masoe
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[TD]Number 8
[/TD]
[TD] New Zealand
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[TD="align: left"]Joe van Niekerk (c)
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[TD]Number 8
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[TD] South Africa

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EDIT; so old though..

Another Edit: 6Juan Smith, 7Steffon Armitage, 8JMF Lobbe?? I have no idea though if Smith is anything close to what he was pre long term injury.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Waikato is a union and not a club. If you're getting nick picky it would be like Toulon vs Hamilton Marist...

Had to get your name in there?? Shouldn't it be nit picky??

But I get your point...

 

[nickdnz]

Had to get your name in there?? Shouldn't it be nit picky??

But I get your point...

It's part of promoting my upcoming boyband. #nitpickyisnogayerthanbelieber.

 

[Tony Manx]

Not going to happen after Chiefs reveal pre season fixtures!

 

[Nielsch]

From the Chiefs website:

The Chiefs had been working on a match against the French club Toulon, however this will not take place this season. Both parties put extensive work into playing the match, but were not able to get the required approvals from their national bodies. Other factors contributed to the decision not to proceed with the match, which included injury, unavailability of players and travel considerations.


Chiefs CEO Andrew Flexman said "The Toulon match was always contingent on us being able to take a full strength squad, however due to our circumstances, this has changed, so now we will put our focus on our existing pre-season campaign and an important season ahead. We have not ruled out playing matches off-shore in the future."