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higgik

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higgik

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All irrelevant judging by the score in the first leg...
Yes, but shows that without proper funding the Premiership is effectively ring fenced.

I think Sir Ian Macgeechan's column yesterday, makes sense. He mentions that there is no final number of teams, just have as many teams as is financially viable.
12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 24 who cares as long as the product is great and talent comes through, but teams should be selected on fan base, finance and squad.
 

Old Hooker

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All irrelevant judging by the score in the first leg...

This year yes, but if they’d been playing Wuss or Falcons (you know, the kind of team you might normally expect to be relegated :) ) then this have might have been much more of a live issue.
 

Akker Van Der Tigs

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Without proper funding isn't Ealing's owner worth like hundreds of millions?

Here's the trouble with Macgechan bit
"but teams should be selected on fan base, finance and squad."

That would basically be a 10 team league really.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Without proper funding isn't Ealing's owner worth like hundreds of millions?
Yup, and he's said the club has a blank cheque from him to spend as much as they want
Obviously there's level to rich owners (diamond mine owning billionaires etc) but they're not some plucky little amateur side or anything
 

Tallshort

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Don't you have to have 2 years of books in line with the premiership to be promoted? In which case Sarries have another year yet
 

RedruthRFC

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Without proper funding isn't Ealing's owner worth like hundreds of millions?

Here's the trouble with Macgechan bit
"but teams should be selected on fan base, finance and squad."

That would basically be a 10 team league really.
It depends how you define "proper funding". Being reliant on one source for a large percentage of your income wouldn't count as "proper" by my definition. I can't be the only person who's wondered what happens when Mike Gooley (who is in this mid eighties) isn't around any more.

I had the same reaction as you to the number of teams that would fit his criteria. The trouble I have with them is if he doesn't want to ringfence, how do you meet the criteria without already being in the Premiership?
 

Geordiefalcon

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This year yes, but if they’d been playing Wuss or Falcons (you know, the kind of team you might normally expect to be relegated :) ) then this have might have been much more of a live issue.
We were 100% last season, and we had a poor squad...but still way better than Ealing... ;)

The Falcons continued problem is the fan base. We will always struggle as we have a small support due to the area being utterly dominated by football.
 

Akker Van Der Tigs

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I think that is the problem for most teams.
1. Either in a area with little interest in Rugby compared to other sports
2. In an area that already has bigger clubs.

It's why Sale moving back into Cheshire area is IMO a very smart move, as although it's still a big Manchester football area it's got a very big Rugby fan base due to it's Rural/farming and Private school background especially close to Sale.

Falcons are kinda stuffed as it's surrounded by football towns and cities, really the only potential target in the area would be a student city like Durham and try to market yourself like the Highlanders in NZ or something.
 

Old Hooker

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Yes, but shows that without proper funding the Premiership is effectively ring fenced.

I think Sir Ian Macgeechan's column yesterday, makes sense. He mentions that there is no final number of teams, just have as many teams as is financially viable.
12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 24 who cares as long as the product is great and talent comes through, but teams should be selected on fan base, finance and squad.
He also says that any increase in clubs to 14 or beyond could lead to conferences and that relegation / promotion could be every 3 or 4 years, not annually…..any club falling out of the prem for that period of time would surely be destroyed.

I don’t like the idea of ring fencing but I think some form is inevitable in time.

One good point Geech made was that with no spectre of relegation we have seen some very entertaining rugby and an increased number of young players given their chance. Unarguable, although whether that equips players for knock out or international rugby which can be tighter and totally results driven is another matter.
 

Geordiefalcon

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He also says that any increase in clubs to 14 or beyond could lead to conferences and that relegation / promotion could be every 3 or 4 years, not annually…..any club falling out of the prem for that period of time would surely be destroyed.

I don’t like the idea of ring fencing but I think some form is inevitable in time.

One good point Geech made was that with no spectre of relegation we have seen some very entertaining rugby and an increased number of young players given their chance. Unarguable, although whether that equips players for knock out or international rugby which can be tighter and totally results driven is another matter.
No relegation in the SH but they do alright in knock out comps..
 

Akker Van Der Tigs

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Yeh look at the Irish, how many champions cup medals between them?
How many Rugby world cup semi finals?
 

Old Hooker

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Closed shop or not, reading the United Rugby thread I am so happy that we have the league we have with long established clubs, proper historic rivalries and a simple home and away fixture structure all within our own borders. Right now I’m not even going to moan about the play offs.
 

RedruthRFC

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He also says that any increase in clubs to 14 or beyond could lead to conferences and that relegation / promotion could be every 3 or 4 years, not annually…..any club falling out of the prem for that period of time would surely be destroyed.
Bristol spent 5 consecutive seasons in The Championship without being destroyed. The likelihood of destruction depends on the owner(s) / benefactor(s) willingness to cover the increased losses created by the reduction in match day revenues and sponsors. The fan base have their part to play in this - the first time Bristol were promoted from The Championship, their average attendance was higher than some Premiership clubs. The next season, London Irish bounced back with an average attendance that dwindled through the season to the point that they played in front of less than two thousand people in one match. Had they had to wait another four years before getting their shot at promotion, who knows how much their attendances would have shrunk and hence how much larger their shortfall would have grown.

That assumes that the parachute payment would be extended to cover the additional years in The Championship. I don't see why it wouldn't be as it wouldn't be getting spent on anything else with the Premiership being ringfenced over that period. At the moment, the demoted team tends to try and keep their Premiership squad together, not just to ensure promotion straight back up, but because London Welsh and Bristol mk. 1 showed how difficult it is to turn a Championship winning team into a Premiership surviving team in the off season. Depending on the conditions on winning the next promotion spot available, it's possible that teams wouldn't need to spend as much on players, at least in the first couple of seasons.

All in all, it wouldn't be easy and it demands discussion, but I don't see why relegation in this scenario should mean the end of any club.
Closed shop or not, reading the United Rugby thread I am so happy that we have the league we have with long established clubs, proper historic rivalries and a simple home and away fixture structure all within our own borders. Right now I’m not even going to moan about the play offs.
Has anywhere that didn't have an existing tradition made a success of regional / provincial rugby? Given how parochial English rugby is, I can't see there being a cat in hell's chance of it working here. Whether that's a good or bad thing for the national game is another question.
 

Die Lekker Bro

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I don't know lads, sounds like you all could do with becoming a bit more.... United?

Yeh look at the Irish, how many champions cup medals between them?
How many Rugby world cup semi finals?

We'll be the ones laughing after the world cup after the next one.
 

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