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[COVID-19] General Discussion

TRF_Olyy

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What is the difference?
Anyone can list anything on amazon/ebay/alibaba/wish etc. with any claim they want,
If you go to a recognised medical manufacturing firm they have to adhere to certain guidelines and jump through certain hoops to say
This is from a Government who passed off the making of PPE to their so called “mates”.
That kinda proves my points - every tom dick and harry is producing the stuff these days, which dilutes the market and makes it harder to find the legitimate stuff
These Chinese masks are still made to KN95 standard.
I imagine a large amount are - but the ones that cost significantly less than the others, that you buy in bulk?
Anyone could knock those up and claim they're KN95
But also whether in turn to trust the European FFP2 standard, which broadly the same.
Depends who's certifying that - my parents brought back a few boxes of KN95 masks from France, they were raving about them - when you read the box they're not proven to do that/had to pass any checks, it's just something they print on the box
 

Which Tyler

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What is the difference? This is from a Government who passed off the making of PPE to their so called “mates”.

These Chinese masks are still made to KN95 standard. Whether you want to trust that standard is another question. But also whether in turn to trust the European FFP2 standard, which broadly the same.

Still, A lot of PPE equipment, whether procured by medical authorities and masks, whether FP2 or surgical will be made in China because we are still reliant on their cheap Labour.
A] stuff that have passed quality inspection vs stuff that hasn't

B] That's the point, some are, many aren't, they've just got a fake "certificate" printed on it.
N95 and FFP2 standards are broadly similar; but if it hasn't been tested, it hasn't been tested.
Any idiot can print "N95/KN95/FFP2" of a piece of fabric, it doesn't mean it's gone through any sort of quality control.

C] No-one's saying don't buy chinese manufactured goods.
I'm saying that if you buy a rolex for £75 in a chinese market, it's best not to go around thinking it's a genuine rolex. Or a DVD for 50p of a movie that's only had a cinematic release. Or any other cheap knock-off you care to think about.
Plenty of chinese goods go through European testing and verifying - but there's also plenty that don't
 

The_Blindside

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A] stuff that have passed quality inspection vs stuff that hasn't

B] That's the point, some are, many aren't, they've just got a fake "certificate" printed on it.
N95 and FFP2 standards are broadly similar; but if it hasn't been tested, it hasn't been tested.
Any idiot can print "N95/KN95/FFP2" of a piece of fabric, it doesn't mean it's gone through any sort of quality control.

C] No-one's saying don't buy chinese manufactured goods.
I'm saying that if you buy a rolex for £75 in a chinese market, it's best not to go around thinking it's a genuine rolex. Or a DVD for 50p of a movie that's only had a cinematic release. Or any other cheap knock-off you care to think about.
Plenty of chinese goods go through European testing and verifying - but there's also plenty that don't
C0845194 9C7D 4017 9894 9A4760498040
These are the ones I bought. And right now we are relying on this CE European standard. As far as I can tell from this https://bda.org/advice/Coronavirus/Documents/spotting-fake-face-masks.pdf

It has all the necessary markings. If it is a fake FFP2 it’s a damn good one. Yes it has NR which means non-reusable and I am throwing it in the wash, which I should not.

D2182CCA 5A07 483F 8332 DFAA45236B67


F8D6D873 96B6 4B01 8C51 9CE220BCBF11

972797A4 CDC5 4058 8835 3FC1CA21212C
 

Which Tyler

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I don't know enough to say whether or not that mask is genuine or fake - I doubt that anyone does without actual testing.
Just because a manufacturer knows what to write on the mask, doesn't mean that it actually conforms to standards. Again, fake rolexes tend to have "Rolex" written on them.

Fakes aren't easy to spot, especially since they raised their game.

It may well be genuine, and you happened on a good deal, but it may also be fake. There's no way of actually telling without putting it through a filtration test.
I fully accept that that mask looks as genuine as you or I would be able to tell. It also looks very similar to my KN95 masks (bought during first lockdown) which I was told not to wear at work because it couldn't be trusted.


Incidentally, even batches actually tested by EU lab.s may not be up to standard: https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2021-002510_EN.html
 
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ncurd

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In-laws decided to demonstrate their stupidity yesterday, father-in-law has COVID according to an LFT test but won't ask for a PCR because he doesn't have to take one now. And as mother-in-la doesn't have to self isolate he drove her down the doctors yesterday for a different examination whilst he waited in the car. They're both in their 70's.
 

Le Frére Alpha

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Our emergency health team has just recommended the removal of almost all restrictions. Facemasks in shops and public transport and safety measures in offices and schools the exception.

Very unexpected and welcome news, Omicron clearly very manageable based on their assessment.
 

Bruce_ma gooshvili

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Japan is the latest nation I'd suggest is worth keeping an eye on as:

Omicron started to run rife last week
NH country in winter with an incredibly old population
A jaw droppingly bad booster rate of 1.5% (but 80% double dosed)
Almost certainly gives reliable fatality figures
Generally a lot more tolerant of cases than Korea and China so may not even attempt to stamp it out.

I have zero idea what is about to happen in Japan (other than JRLO may be completely screwed) and can't even speculate. It is the test case to show what Omicron can do against an unboosted nation and may give an indication of what is happening Russia just now and what may happen to China. I'm keeping everything crossed as if this doesn't turn ugly in Japan by mid-February it may be a huge deal globally (in a positive sense).

 

Le Frére Alpha

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What's going on here is actually kind of nuts. Covid essentially ends at 6am tomorrow. Masks on public transport and in schools, offices and shops the only remaining restrictions.
 

Bruce_ma gooshvili

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Curious that the main UK state broadcaster doesn't appear to be reporting this.


45% of Danish cases are reportedly this sub-variant and I'm not seeing anything alarming in their figures. I believe there are at least tens of thousands of variants out there since the start of this thing. Early days, but I'd imagine this sub-variant simply increases the likelihood that a winter booster in 2022 being required for the more vulnerable categories. Nothing in the Danish figures thus far to suggest a further booster would be required pre-summer in the northern hemisphere, but that isn't set in stone.
 

The_Blindside

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Once a certain threshold is crossed, the social norm can shift, hastening an overall change in behaviour. However, society does not move as a cohesive group, reflecting the very wide differences in risk faced by different groups and also shaped by personal experiences during the pandemic.

You’ve got many groups of people, including about a quarter who are clinically vulnerable because of their age and/or health status,” said Prof Susan Michie, the director of the Centre for Behaviour Change at UCL. “Many have stopped going out to restaurants and bars and are living very restricted lives. That’s not to do with the rules, it’s to do with the level of infection that has been allowed to surge and stay high over many months.”

By contrast, Michie said, young men have been the least likely to adhere to rules and are the group most likely to shift to less cautious behaviour once rules are lifted.

People also respond to messaging as well as the letter of the law. Simon Williams, a senior lecturer in people and organisation at Swansea University, said that on this front people may have been left feeling uncertain about what behaviours were now recommended.

“As the government mentions, caution is still important, since, despite the positive trend, rates are still high,” he said. “However … the problem with the general advice to ‘be cautious’ is that it is too vague and conflicts with the message that is sent by the removal of all policy measures and protections.
I think the bold bits hit the nail on the head. The strong guidance and consistent public health messaging throughout this pandemic is patchy and inconsistent at best.
 
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Amiga500

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Pity they wouldn't give examples of what "cautious" entails...
 

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Meatloaf reported in several newspapers including the Times to have been critically ill with Covid before he died. Not clear if he was vaccinated but he was critical of mandates.

Pity they wouldn't give examples of what "cautious" entails...

From my reading It means they are being deliberately vague and push responsibility back to the public. Still, I would say stick to the measures you can control.
 

Bruce_ma gooshvili

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I'd file this under 'better than nothing'. It's not going to help you on a bus though is it? Mask wearing on public transport has been better than expected up here despite zero enforcement. If that continues along with this badge then we might coax the more vulnerable and/or anxious back into society.

 

ncurd

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This isn't surprising you have to remember the huge rise into anti-vax sentiment in the UK in the late 90's was generated most by one person acting in bad faith, conducting criminal experiments to prove his work and then falsifying the data to come to a weak conclusion.
 

Tallshort

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This isn't surprising you have to remember the huge rise into anti-vax sentiment in the UK in the late 90's was generated most by one person acting in bad faith, conducting criminal experiments to prove his work and then falsifying the data to come to a weak conclusion.
Also the way it was reported and the then PM not confirming if his kids had had the triple vaccine didn't help
 

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