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Deans Sacked McKenzie To Be Named Coach Of The Wallabies

Mrs. Peter Quinn

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Again, you aren't getting my point.
If there is too much pressure coming from the other scrum, then he has to go backwards.
He wasn't driven backwards because he collapsed as soon he thought he was going to be.

It's the equivalent of hugging your opponent in boxing.

The whole point of trying to be dominant in the scrum is to push the other scrum backwards, if they collapse it, then they are illegally stopping you from gaining ground.
Both sides of the scrum are duty-bound to hold up the scrum, even if you are being out muscled.
It is completely illegal to intentionally stop an opposition drive by anything other than driving back.

...you arn't seeing mine either - its not always intentional when a prop collapses,: and even though it may be clear which prop is chiefly reponsible/hinged first, it won't necessarily do the contest much good to use a card. Alexander 'collapsed as soon as he thought he was going to be?'
Intentionally? Hmm, I don't think so - in that scrum it wasn't looking much like a big driver. Sometimes deliberate collapsing happens - but lots of scrums have to be reset because both props hinge - in those cases the ref accepts it's not intentional. Why are situations such as this any different?

I don't deny the binding responsibility to keep the scrum steady... but if it's not happening, I don't agreee the best thing to do is always to card a player
 

psychic duck

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You're right, the front row of Lions is too strong, not many teams with so many good props together. I think the Wallabies Scrum has improved significantly over the last year.

Sure they managed to outwit inexperienced liabilities like Marler and Vunipola at loosehead (although for some reason people ignore that in Vunipola's case he actually recovered and won more points back).

But still:

June 2012 - Scotland make a big upset to win 9-6. They hardly looked like scoring a try all game, I will leave you to work out what area of the game the match winning points came from...
They were also shoved about Wales too but managed to get away with it from a generous ref.

November 2012 - France absolutely destroy the Aussie scrum with a debutant at loosehead and missing their best prop Domingo. Do well against England, but pretty poor against Italy the following week.

June 2013 - The Lions muller them big time. Not just the 3rd Test, for the 1st Test as well with the starting props, and also the 2nd when Vunipola recovered.

There's no doubt that any team that faces the Wallabies will know full well they can exploit a weakness there.
 

ratsapprentice

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Intentionally? Hmm, I don't think so - in that scrum it wasn't looking much like a big driver. Sometimes deliberate collapsing happens - but lots of scrums have to be reset because both props hinge - in those cases the ref accepts it's not intentional. Why are situations such as this any different?

I don't deny the binding responsibility to keep the scrum steady... but if it's not happening, I don't agreee the best thing to do is always to card a player

It doesn't really matter whether or not it's happening intentionally, it's beside the point.
If a side has a dominant scrum, and the opposition keeps collapsing (whether intentional or not) they are denying the opposition side the opportunity to gain territorial advantage from the scrum.
"Sometimes collapsing happens" - mainly because sides are unwilling to concede territory.
If it's happening unintentionally that often, then the prop/pack in question is simply incompetent.

I think you're underestimating the percentage of intentional collapsed scrums.

Players should be carded if they are not able to scrummage correctly.
It shouldn't get to that point though, not if you pick players who can do their job!
 
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Amobokoboko

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Does this means he will coach the AB's any soon?
 

munstermuffin

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Totally off topic but Aussies appointed McGahan as Rebels coach so he gone from Aussie coaching team. My simple point is Rebels appointed him as he's won big in England and his experience with Aus. When did he win big in England or is Muster moved over to UK .... WTF like
 

profitius

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Totally off topic but Aussies appointed McGahan as Rebels coach so he gone from Aussie coaching team. My simple point is Rebels appointed him as he's won big in England and his experience with Aus. When did he win big in England or is Muster moved over to UK .... WTF like

They're ignorant. I don't rate TMG has a head coach anyway. He is a top class defense coach but the way Munster were playing under him was awful rugby.
 

munstermuffin

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I'd disagree as someone who seen Tony day in day out and seen his work in trainings and vision I'd disagree because he was major player in getting academy going. Also he took over at a time when only way to go was down. He tried to get us playing a different way and it didn't work as alot of lads were still the old brigade and you can't teach an old dog new tricks but he is a good head coach however I mentioned transition which hampers his teachings. Maybe it won't be as bad at Rebels but Delve JOC Beale maybe and a few more may leave so it fragile situation
 

InsaneAsylum

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Irish/Munster folk thanks for you input into Tony McGahan. There is already mixed sentiment about it as a lot of us rebels fans felt that the incumbent (totally overused term in rugby these days) coach Damien Hill was tracking well with the rebels. Can you elaborate more on how he got them playing "ugly rugby". I like to know more about his style of play.

also, O'Connor has already been ditched. Delve, Robinson, Phipps, Vuna, Henderson, Davidson and kingi are all gone, so it will be a vastly different lineup next year, a lot of new blood, not so much of the old brigade. I wont hold my breath regarding Beale, no one really knows what he's doing.
 

smartcooky

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I completely agree with the previous posts. Its good to hear that people from other countries seem to have a good understanding of what has been happening. Deans has had a decent player pool to choose from but has chosen the wrong game plan, and its boring an 1 dimensional. One of his biggest problems is also his love of picking players out of position. O'Connor was never going to be the fiveighth we needed. He doesn't attack the line enough and his long passing/kicking isn't good enough. That being said, hes still a good player but should be in the back three, on the bench, or possibly 12.
What annoys me the most is that we were playing a good brand of rugby a few years ago (under deans) in the tri nations, not sure what year but it was the year beale slotted that penalty after the siren to win in SA. We may have lost a few games that year but i really enjoyed the rugby. I think there were a few scorelines of 40-30 or so. I can handle losing the bledisloe when we give it a real crack with running rugby but it doesnt sit well when we play one out rugby and still lose ugly. Not sure why deans decided to go this way, we've never had the tight forwards or big inside backs. Another thing is that recently we have conceded a lot of tries from aimless kicks, most of them come from positions where we could have run it from.
I can only hope mackenzie can make the step up...

And therein lay one of Deans' key problems; the lack of a decent front row. Winning rugby starts up front; it might be an old adage, but its as true today as it ever was. You might be able to win the occasional match with 20% possession and brilliant back play, but you aren't going to win consistently that way.

The front row of the Wallaby scrum has basically been owned on and off by just about all their major opposition for the last several years. It started with Al Baxter when he was cruelly exposed in only his third test by the England scrum in the RWC final in 2003, and again in 2005 at Twickenham when he was yellow carded for a deliberate collapse. Things have not gotten any better since as they selected a succession of front rowers that just could not cut the mustard. They were exposed by England in the quarter-final of the 2007 RWC and again by England in 2010, then by Ireland at the 2011 RWC. I haven't even mentioned how often they have run into scrum trouble in the Tri-Nations.

Many times they have been able to avoid trouble by avoiding scrummaging, firstly by not competing on the opposition's put-in, and relying on their superior backs to tackle the oppositions backs, and secondly by dropping the scrum on engage at their own put in, to take the steam out of the opponent's hit, then quickly feeding the reset scrum and getting the ball out as quickly as possible. Sooner or later, however, they would run into a referee (Rolland. Jutge, Poite) who would insist that they stay up on their feet and participate in a proper contest, and that is when they would be in trouble.

I'm not sure why Australia has had so much difficulty in developing front row forwards. It never used to be like that. Perhaps if they spent less money buying flash-harry ex-rugby league backs with million-dollar price-tags, like Tuiqiri, Sailor, Rogers, Folau etc, they might have more money to put into the development of front row forwards.
 

admartian

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^My favourite Wallaby prop is still Matt Dunning. Purely because he was a Peter Griffin (Family Guy) clone. :p
 

smartcooky

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^My favourite Wallaby prop is still Matt Dunning. Purely because he was a Peter Griffin (Family Guy) clone. :p

Which one, Matt "drop kick" Dunning, or Matt "who ate all the pies?" Dunning?
 

Draggs

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Matt "Who ate all the dropkicks?" Dunning, of course.
Australia really have a horrendous track record for props.
Guy Shepardson, Rodney whatever, Ben(n) Alexander, Ben(n) Robinson. They make Scott Andrews look like a world-beater.
 

admartian

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Matt "Who ate all the dropkicks?" Dunning, of course.
Australia really have a horrendous track record for props.
Guy Shepardson, Rodney whatever, Ben(n) Alexander, Ben(n) Robinson. They make Scott Andrews look like a world-beater.

Which one, Matt "drop kick" Dunning, or Matt "who ate all the pies?" Dunning?
I think we just found the issue of why the Wallabies suck at scrums. Just blame Matt "just ate all the good props" Dunning.
 

Draggs

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I think we just found the issue of why the Wallabies suck at scrums. Just blame Matt "just ate all the good props" Dunning.

And they were delicious
1g4e.jpg
 

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Matt was actually Canadian born, and his brother played for us briefly.....does anyone have footage of his interception? The one where I think (was it the Blues?) wasted a 5 on 1 with only Dunning defending and Matt made an intercept which led to a huge break down the middle of the field...it's honestly one of the most awesome things I've ever seen in rugby.
 

psychic duck

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Matt was actually Canadian born, and his brother played for us briefly.....does anyone have footage of his interception? The one where I think (was it the Blues?) wasted a 5 on 1 with only Dunning defending and Matt made an intercept which led to a huge break down the middle of the field...it's honestly one of the most awesome things I've ever seen in rugby.

http://youtu.be/xEchgcNMKrg?t=1m40s
 

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