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<blockquote data-quote="bates" data-source="post: 221798"><p><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Oct 5 2008, 08:27 PM) <a href="http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=351512" target="_blank"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div></p><p></p><p></p><p>I disagree, the Baltic states are some of the fastest growing economies in the EU with higher rates of growth and better infrastructure than, say, Belgium these days <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" /> </p><p></p><p>But if you asked any ordinary lithuanian or Estonian the same question asked of Saakaashvili, that of if they'd take Russian oil or freeze, they too would say the latter.</p><p></p><p>It is very easy for us here in the West to sit about and call the President of Georgia "Rambo" and tell Georgia that they're bringing it on themselves if they refuse Russian oil and gas but lets look at the reality here.</p><p></p><p>Georgia is a state that has only just emerged from over two centuries of Russian domination, they would rather endure hardship than be sucked back under the thumb of the Russian bear.</p><p></p><p>Also, I think it very cheeky for us in Europe to tut tut at Georgia when most of continental Europe barely even recognised that what Russia was doing in Georgia was wrong.</p><p>[/b]</p></blockquote><p></p><p></p><p>Well Prestwick, old chap: D I agree on some of your points but what I wanted to say is the following.</p><p>I completely understand both countries their reaction and owing to historical background I know most East European countries aren't that keen on Russia.</p><p>But to play hard against hard isn't really a solution for the issues they have.</p><p></p><p>My parents in law are Polish, they were raised during communism and believe it or not, most people from their age group ( let's say mid 50's) aren't that keen on the capitalism due to very low salaries and very Western European prices. ( sorry for going off topic here)</p><p>But during one of my trainings I met Estonians and Lithuanians and they said that ( like the Polish people) their government is really investing in economy and buildings to enter the EU, fair enough, but salaries are crap and prices high. I think the situation is the same in Georgia. I don't blame Georgia for standing to their points, Belgium did the same throughout the centuries after being occupied by almost every European country there is <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big Grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> </p><p></p><p>But like in many political situations the common citizens are becoming the victim here and off course a president should protect the people and stand up for them, but there are more and different ways to achieve your goal than what's happening know.</p><p></p><p>To get back to the original topic; imo the democracy in Russia is just superficial; Putin may be at the background but Medvedev is just a puppet. The have all the natural resources and they are keen on having power and they are not afraid of showing that ( see my first post concerning gas/oil). Everything is good as long "Russia" is in a positive way in the media, otherwise you're out.</p><p></p><p>I sometimes compare them with China (olympic games).</p><p></p><p>For all our East-European friends I really hope the political situation will change fast.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="bates, post: 221798"] <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Oct 5 2008, 08:27 PM) [url='index.php?act=findpost&pid=351512']<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/url]</div> I disagree, the Baltic states are some of the fastest growing economies in the EU with higher rates of growth and better infrastructure than, say, Belgium these days ;) But if you asked any ordinary lithuanian or Estonian the same question asked of Saakaashvili, that of if they'd take Russian oil or freeze, they too would say the latter. It is very easy for us here in the West to sit about and call the President of Georgia "Rambo" and tell Georgia that they're bringing it on themselves if they refuse Russian oil and gas but lets look at the reality here. Georgia is a state that has only just emerged from over two centuries of Russian domination, they would rather endure hardship than be sucked back under the thumb of the Russian bear. Also, I think it very cheeky for us in Europe to tut tut at Georgia when most of continental Europe barely even recognised that what Russia was doing in Georgia was wrong. [/b][/quote] Well Prestwick, old chap: D I agree on some of your points but what I wanted to say is the following. I completely understand both countries their reaction and owing to historical background I know most East European countries aren't that keen on Russia. But to play hard against hard isn't really a solution for the issues they have. My parents in law are Polish, they were raised during communism and believe it or not, most people from their age group ( let's say mid 50's) aren't that keen on the capitalism due to very low salaries and very Western European prices. ( sorry for going off topic here) But during one of my trainings I met Estonians and Lithuanians and they said that ( like the Polish people) their government is really investing in economy and buildings to enter the EU, fair enough, but salaries are crap and prices high. I think the situation is the same in Georgia. I don't blame Georgia for standing to their points, Belgium did the same throughout the centuries after being occupied by almost every European country there is :D But like in many political situations the common citizens are becoming the victim here and off course a president should protect the people and stand up for them, but there are more and different ways to achieve your goal than what's happening know. To get back to the original topic; imo the democracy in Russia is just superficial; Putin may be at the background but Medvedev is just a puppet. The have all the natural resources and they are keen on having power and they are not afraid of showing that ( see my first post concerning gas/oil). Everything is good as long "Russia" is in a positive way in the media, otherwise you're out. I sometimes compare them with China (olympic games). For all our East-European friends I really hope the political situation will change fast. [/QUOTE]
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