Do we need a draft?

[steve9145]

i think its the basis of a plan.
perhaps we could include some of our younger mp,s in the draft.
the snp look like they have a few props, especially the ladies.

 

[Car]

You have raised the most interesting and important point so far, my friend. Let me say something: I believe in public education: liberté, egalité, fraternité, that is what I believe. But even public universities recieve founds from private investors, right? Couldn't we privatize sports departments?

I know I am probably going way too far or simply being ridiculous, but it's the only possible solution I can come up with. In your wonderful country you don't even pay fees to get to college right? Awesome

The question is if that would be well received. I know that here in Germany, you have students who are protesting against closer cooperation between businesses and universities, even though it was shown to benefit students.

Yes, correct.

Also: What about labour legislation and how is a draft system compatible with promotion/ relegation? Sure, that could be abolished, but how many teams would a French league without relegation have to incorporate all professional clubs?

 

[Horacito]

Well, draft system would mean that another league that's already existent would have another dimension, importance. We would have to change to the franchises businesses and make a closed league when biggest "clubs" become franchises like the bulls, the thunders or patriots get the universitary players and the draft serves in a regulatory porpose.

So no relegation/ promotion, only creating more franchises.

 

[Car]

I don't think people would like that, not to mention any possible lawsuits by players or current clubs (especially those that don't make the cut).

 

[Unol Daleithiau]

Is this thread about Argentinian rugby, or the world as a whole?

Regardless I can honestly say a draft in rugby should never happen.

 

[Horacito]

There's already a thread for argentinian rugby issues in tier 2 rugby.

This is about the organization of rugby worldwide.

 

[Unol Daleithiau]

There's already a thread for argentinian rugby issues in tier 2 rugby.

This is about the organization of rugby worldwide.

Well then, the concept of a draft is certainly laughable here.

 

[Amiga500]

ideas anybody?

Enforcing kids to go to uni to have a professional career is a no-no.

Having a draft system aligned with education is also fraught with difficulties. For example, does an Irish student studying in an English university be confined to English teams?


However, you do raise an interesting point of sorts - moreso for countries where the union effectively "owns" every team from national down to club. [Forget about England and France, draft picking there simply won't work due to the clubs existing as private enterprises - they, quite rightly, would have zero tolerance toward aiding a commercial competitor.]


But, say in Ireland, it is quite clear that the provinces have different strengths in different areas, to the extent that promising players are not getting much/any game-time due to being well down the "pecking order". For instance, consider ourselves. At the start of the season we had:
- Luke Marshall
- Stuart McCloskey
- Stuart Olding
- Darren Cave
- Jared Payne
- Michael Allen
- Sam Arnold
- Louis Ludik

as potential centres. Obviously 8 into 2 does not go. Even with injuries through the year, one (Michael Allen) has decided to leave to seek his fortunes elsewhere, and another (Sam Arnold) hasn't really got a look in, as the potential vs. experience equation didn't weigh up.

But then, look at Munster, who had quite a few centre injuries themselves through the year, without anything like the depth Ulster had (but, comparatively, Munster were well stocked in the back row and Ulster not).


It has been talked about in Ireland for some time that players not getting game time should be allowed to move between the provinces, the thinking at the time of appointment was that David Nucifora would instigate this. However, little to nothing has happened; not even a firm framework for what criteria makes a player available.

That may change, I hope it does, too many players aren't getting the chance to prove themselves and improve themselves...

But back to the wider question you ask; given we cannot even sort ourselves out when being effectively 4 different rooms under the one roof, I don't see any wide draft pick gaining traction.

 

[Horacito]

Yeah, of course, if anything, this thread shows that rugby fans are not willing to put bussines over local pride or local history, and that is the very first law of th draft.

Draft works to make the sport more competitive and stronger as a product. Also, is better for the union as it gives them more power to regulate over teams, better for the franchises involved (no teams, no clubs, no attachment), it creates a centralized power which commanded by the right man can create growth like, for example, David Stern over 30 years in the NBA. Of course David Stern is the best commisioner in history of american sport but is just the best example that comes to mind.

The first thing is to get rid of borders that close a country half the half of the half of mine to having a huge structure to hold it, like rugby now. The unions should expand and only one should rule over regions, like the conferences of America. East, and West.

 

[Unol Daleithiau]

Yeah, of course, if anything, this thread shows that rugby fans are not willing to put bussines over local pride or local history, and that is the very first law of th draft.

Draft works to make the sport more competitive and stronger as a product. Also, is better for the union as it gives them more power to regulate over teams, better for the franchises involved (no teams, no clubs, no attachment), it creates a centralized power which commanded by the right man can create growth like, for example, David Stern over 30 years in the NBA. Of course David Stern is the best commisioner in history of american sport but is just the best example that comes to mind.

The first thing is to get rid of borders that close a country half the half of the half of mine to having a huge structure to hold it, like rugby now. The unions should expand and only one should rule over regions, like the conferences of America. East, and West.

I think you are missing something. One of the best things about Rugby Union is the sense of community. It is part of our culture in a lot of places. Setting up all these franchises w/ draft systems and "bigger than the regions" appeal is a fatal flaw...and it would be a disgrace. Rugby doesn't need to rapidly try to grow into the NFL, it will grow slowly but it needs to stay connected to its roots. If you want franchises and such, go play League. You might like the NRL, they are even considering a draft.

the right man can create growth like, for example, David Stern over 30 years in the NBA. Of course David Stern is the best commisioner in history of american sport but is just the best example that comes to mind.

LOL Do you readlly believe that? XD

This is a good article about what Stern really was.
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10377689/whitlock-david-stern-was-bully-got-lucky

 

[Horacito]

I could be a prick and point out one thread in this very forum in which the "cultural roots" have being exposed and not for the best, you know. I feel that sometimes "cultural roots" mean "I am a proud villager so what".

Draft could be adapted to our club culture, though, I believe so.

Yeah, I think David Stern is the best commisioner in history, perhaps because NFL is runned differently from NBA with all the owners of the teams making decissions like a round table.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I could be a prick and point out one thread in this very forum in which the "cultural roots" have being exposed and not for the best, you know. I feel that sometimes "cultural roots" mean "I am a proud villager so what".

Draft could be adapted to our club culture, though, I believe so.

Yeah, I think David Stern is the best commisioner in history, perhaps because NFL is runned differently from NBA with all the owners of the teams making decissions like a round table.

Your argument is fundamentally flawed. The NFL is just a single tournament played by US teams. If you want to make a comparison, then you'll have to use it with an equivalent in Rugby, and that would most probably be something like the Currie Cup or ITM Cup which is played in one country with that country's teams. The teams like the NFL's Ravens/Cowboys/49ers/Packers would be the equivalent of the Bulls/Cheetahs/Lions/Sharks if I take the Currie Cup as an example which has a North and South Conference like the NFL's Conference system.

But that's where it stops.

You can't try to implement a Draft system for the entire World Rugby Organisation and it's affiliates, when World Rugby doesn't have much say about the Country and how they work with their local teams/clubs/franchises.

And I can tell you now, SANZAR nations, as well as the 6 Nations participating countries will not go for this silly idea of a draft. It will never work.

 

[Groundhog]

Literally no reason to do it, and hundreds of reasons not to. You can't adapt a system in place in a one country sport to an international sport with privately and otherwise owned clubs who are not beholden to any one organisation around the world, where no such college sport culture exists. Simple as.

 

[Car]

You'd end up killing a great part of the culture, which would drive many fans away. In German ice hockey, the Bundesliga was replaced by the DEL. Relegation was abolished and teams adopted American-like names instead of their traditional club names. The lack of relegation helped stabilise the league after massive financial problems, but interest in the sport is much lower than in the 80s or 90s because many consider it to be a "Mickey Mouse league". Now imagine they had franchises, a draft system and in addition to that they'd play in a multinational league. That'd hurt the sport, at least for quite some time. They'd really have to offer a much more attractive product to make people tolerate that. Because most wouldn't like it, just tolerate it.

 

[Peat]

Why should rugby seek to be like American sport?

I don't like the razmatazz. I don't like seeing teams full of guys with no connection to the area. I don't like the giant media frenzies of the draft. I think making players into stars before they turn pro is a dangerous idea and, more over, not something we need to copy American sport over for it to occur.

I don't think it would create a more interesting sport and I don't think it would produce better games. That's what it's all about, right?

In any case - you can dismiss reluctance to change as parochialism, but tradition sells. You look at the branding for virtually every product under the sun, those who can sell on tradition do so. People like being part of a shared story. They like taking part in the same institutions that famous people did. We have seen parts of the game try to override that and they have had rocky, rocky rides. If you want rugby to grow and be massive and everything, you leverage the existing strengths rather than start anew. You build on tradition and you build on selling what people want.

Doing otherwise is like going to a steakhouse and asking for a vegetable curry. You wouldn't do that and you wouldn't try putting a draft into rugby, for all its strengths.