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England 2021/22

Scotty

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So figured id make this so we could discuss Lions players in a England context outside the Lions.

Also which of the Summer tour players will step up.

General England rugby thread
 

Scotty

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So my first thought was Simmonds, how could he fit in this England set up? A System player but has alot of talent.

Could back row of Dombrandt6/8 Curry 7 Simmonds 8 work? Combination of Dombrandt and curry for tight carrying and breakdown leaving Simmonds to hit gaps, plus with Dombrandt being a good carrying and having a good rugby brain the pair could work well together.

Not saying Simmonds must play for England btw jusy wonder what you guys think.
 

TRF_Olyy

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I've no qualms with Simmonds in the EPS (said all along I'd have him over Earl as the utility guy)

Like I said in the lions thread, though, you've gotta build a pack around him
The Kamikaze Twins are our best 6/7 combo, and by a long shot IMO, and I don't think Simmonds at 8 would work with them

If Kruis comes back then a back 5 of
Itoje Kruis
Simmonds, Curry, Dombrandt
would be something I'd be very interested in seeing
 

ncurd

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Not a bad Autumn series proper warm follow by pretty good opposition. Will be pretty good to adjudge if EJ has learnt anything or were ******.

Tonga, NZ and SA
 

TRF_Olyy

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Yeah, like that a lot

Would've preferred to have played Australia over SA (not played them outside of the RWC since 2018, whereas we'll have seen a lot of SA with the Lions tour) but that's a minor quibble
 

ncurd

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Yeah, like that a lot

Would've preferred to have played Australia over SA (not played them outside of the RWC since 2018, whereas we'll have seen a lot of SA with the Lions tour) but that's a minor quibble
I suppose there's minor boast when the Lions lose to SA and we beat them we can all moan how Gats is rubbish ;)
 

mike1

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The website above has us down as playing Australia in the middle game of the autumn...

On player discussion: I think Daly will continue to play well at 13 on the lions tour and continue there for England in the autumn. Eddie Jones lined him up there in the six Nations I believe, before readjusting for injuries.
 

ncurd

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The website above has us down as playing Australia in the middle game of the autumn...

On player discussion: I think Daly will continue to play well at 13 on the lions tour and continue there for England in the autumn. Eddie Jones lined him up there in the six Nations I believe, before readjusting for injuries.
Yeah sorry you are correct my issues with telling the difference with tiny little flags on twitter and the comments lying to me.


That's frustrating was half considering trying to get tickets for an NZ game might still look at Aus/SA
 

TRF_Olyy

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The website above has us down as playing Australia in the middle game of the autumn...
Good catch,

In that case I'd prefer NZ > RSA, as we very very rarely play them outside of the RWC (2018, same as Australia, but then you've got to go back to 2014 for the previous)
 

Geordiefalcon

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Not a bad Autumn series proper warm follow by pretty good opposition. Will be pretty good to adjudge if EJ has learnt anything or were ******.

Tonga, NZ and SA
Tonga, Australia, SA....no NZ...
 

Geordiefalcon

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I think England failed to find a 12 (Kelly is a one to work on)...so looks to me that Eddie is more than happy to continue with Farrell at 12...which im just not a fan of. If we then continue with a Farrell Slade combo ill give up....

Im not sure many of the Summer players will make the step up.

Marcus Smith has to...
Randall should be looked at closely aswell...

Radwan showed up well...but we already have the dillema of too many options there.

Dombrandt didnt set the world alight. Chick didnt show up at all...

Obano...meh, didnt make a statement to challenge Marler (if plays for England again) or Mako. Maybe West will once he recovers from his injury

Lawrence, meh...didnt book his starting spot.

Cokasaniga...see Radwan.

Hayes....one to work with, as is his Tigers partner Kelly

Steward would go straight in as my starting 15.

Ludlow - will never be seen of again

Ludlum should be included somewhere but has huge competition.

Genge obviously will be in the squad.....but is still a frustration for me against the big boys

Blamire might sneak a 3rd Hooker spot...but he's not really ahead of Mcguigan at us yet.
 

BPM

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I’d agree with most of that. Harsh on Lawrence though. He was looking good against the USA prior to the injury, even playing out of position.

Playing in these type of games is never that informative though. If a player doesn’t shine it’s pretty damaging but even when they look good, there’s still the ‘but it was only against a tier 2 side’ argument. I think that’s the difficulty for a winger like Radwan.

I’d like to think Smith has now booked his place in the senior squad. Of the rest, Steward is the only other ‘new’ player to really make a case. Dombrandt and Randall were decent but probably needed bigger performances IMO.
 

Geordiefalcon

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Yeah your right BPM, I do agree these games are poor for players to be judged...damned if they do, damned if they dont.

Im a big fan of Lawrence...really want to see him establish himself...but he's not quite making a statement just yet.
 

Old Hooker

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You can’t tell anything about the new players from the summer. Long season, crap opposition and a scratch Eng.

How they fit in around a full Eng set up after some reasonable time in camp against decent opposition will be much more telling. Smith, Dombrandt & Steward should all play a big part in the AIs, ideally starting. 12 is the perennial question and Radwan should also be looked at closely given what’s been happening with May. Randall possibly from the bench too.
 

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With the Rugby League sides pulling out of the RLWC I wonder if the Wallabies/All Blacks will pull out of the AIs?
 

TRF_Olyy

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Would he have been picked for the summer tests?
With a chiefs vs quins final chick would've been there regardless, I doubt Eddie would have called up both Simmonds and Dombrandt
 

BPM

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I think he would have been selected. Eddie was on to a winner however he might have performed …

If he’d picked Simmonds and he’d done spectacularly well, he could have said ‘now he’s ready for England’, but could also easily back track by adding ‘but it’s only against Tier 2 sides’ to provide a get out for having to pick him for the AIs if he didn’t want to. On the other hand, if he’d played poorly, he could have said ‘see, I told you so’.

Ultimately I’m with Tigs. I think the Lions tour has pretty much confirmed that Simmonds does well in specific scenarios but not well enough elsewhere (and at the nuts and bolts of playing in the back row) to really stand out. Running riot against the USA or Canada wouldn’t have put those doubts to bed, but they’d have added more fuel to the argument for involving him and probably wouldn’t have exposed any reasons not to.

There’s still time though … the first test hasn’t even been played. If things don’t go well and Gatland needs a re-think, I wouldn’t be totally surprised to see Simmonds on the bench for the second test (probably with Faletau starting). If he got that kind of opportunity and showed he could be a game-changer, the Lions tour could still turn out to be the making of him as a test player.
 

Old Hooker

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I like the idea of Simmonds as a utility back row option off the bench against tired legs but he isn’t my idea of a starting 8. Or 7. Or 6.

Ditto Earl.
 

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Times reporting that Mitchell is quitting to join Wasps. Cue the next round of speculation about Jones's toxic workplace.
 

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