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England 2021/22

Ragey Erasmus

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Sanderson seems pretty high nonsense tbh,
Very new age, lots of mind coaches, therapists, brain scans (to look at emotions) etc.

TBF is hill that much of a see you next Tuesday?
Undeniably was this summer but I can't remember him standing out as one in the past - feels more like he was told to really get stuck into the Aussie forwards than he has a proper mean streak or anything
He's always come across as a bit dim and very prone to moments of absolute stupidity. Australia did seem a step up from idiocy to shithousery though and would be a very Eddie thing to get him to do.
 

Old Hooker

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Perhaps. I’ve been a huge fan of Launchbury over the years, but realistically I think he is past his peak now and with his increasing proneness to injury, I’m not expecting an Indian summer.

Putting the Swain BS to one side, Hill has impressed me in his last few England games. Before his injury lay off he was looking good and he’s picked up where he left off. I don’t think he’ll ever be as good as peak Launchbury but I think he’ll most probably be better than the older and sadly injury ravaged version.
I did say it was a ‘big if’ for Launch.

Hill’s big unit but he’s not really impactful enough for me. Wouldn’t disagree that he’s looked better in the last few games but that’s comparing against a low base. Not the same calibre of player we’ve been used to having in the row, but he seems to be a Jones favourite so I hope he keeps improving.

Don’t mind (actively like) players winding up the opposition, but the hair pulling grated. On the subject of which I hope he sorts out his own barnet up north.
 

Scotty

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He's always come across as a bit dim and very prone to moments of absolute stupidity. Australia did seem a step up from idiocy to shithousery though and would be a very Eddie thing to get him to do.
I do wonder vs Aus if it was EJ's plan to get Hill to wind up Swain(because Swain has previous with getting wound up) and ended up getting so lucky not to come off worse. I dont mind it as a tactic tbf, wind up your opponent and make them force things or screw up but when you cant stop yourself getting wound up by the person your out to get then you shouldnt be asked to do it.

Genge or Sinks would be the others who could be deployed like this but both in the past have been on the wrong end of this. But too much of a risk.
 

Ragey Erasmus

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I do wonder vs Aus if it was EJ's plan to get Hill to wind up Swain(because Swain has previous with getting wound up) and ended up getting so lucky not to come off worse. I dont mind it as a tactic tbf, wind up your opponent and make them force things or screw up but when you cant stop yourself getting wound up by the person your out to get then you shouldnt be asked to do it.

Genge or Sinks would be the others who could be deployed like this but both in the past have been on the wrong end of this. But too much of a risk.
Hill could have got a red card for the double hands to the face and was very lucky it was missed. If it was a tactic, Hill either executed it really poorly (really he should have been sent off before the actual red card incident) or Jones was taking an incredible risk and also got lucky. It's not a tactic I could see Hill repeating and getting away with, especially if he develops a reputation.
 

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I did say it was a ‘big if’ for Launch.

Hill’s big unit but he’s not really impactful enough for me. Wouldn’t disagree that he’s looked better in the last few games but that’s comparing against a low base. Not the same calibre of player we’ve been used to having in the row, but he seems to be a Jones favourite so I hope he keeps improving.

Don’t mind (actively like) players winding up the opposition, but the hair pulling grated. On the subject of which I hope he sorts out his own barnet up north.
He’s had a hair cut, so that should please you :)
 

BPM

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Hill could have got a red card for the double hands to the face and was very lucky it was missed. If it was a tactic, Hill either executed it really poorly (really he should have been sent off before the actual red card incident) or Jones was taking an incredible risk and also got lucky. It's not a tactic I could see Hill repeating and getting away with, especially if he develops a reputation.
I know it’s de rigueur to blame everything on Eddie Jones round here, but I could just as easily see Hill’s antics stemming from instructions from Cockerill. Definitely his kind of thing anyway …

TBH, whoever it came from, I really don’t want to see us stooping to that kind of behaviour.
 

Rinkadink

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I don't care too much, I didn't find Hill's antics particularly egregious and very much in line with many other second rows. I would have preferred no cards at all from the incident everyone is complaining about as it really wasn't much and the red card was a bit OTT. Anyway, it shouldn't figure into the equation. Hill is probably the best lock currently involved with the England set up and I expect little change in the second row leading up to the world cup.

Biggest concern I currently have on the player front* is at 12 and EJ is showing no sign of addressing it in a satisfactory manner. Par for the course at this stage. The support coaches and staff (and psychology?) are the biggest issue by far. England's systems are pretty woeful and miles behind the curve.

*unless we see a return of the Youngs and Care double act of doom
 

Not Mike Brown's Sock

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Hill is probably the best lock currently involved with the England set up
Rugby World Cup Sleep GIF by adidas
 

Old Hooker

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Biggest concern I currently have on the player front* is at 12 and EJ is showing no sign of addressing it in a satisfactory manner. Par for the course at this stage. The support coaches and staff (and psychology?) are the biggest issue by far. England's systems are pretty woeful and miles behind the curve.
At 12 I think Jones is totally clear on what he wants - which it might not be what we want, but we’ll just have to suck it up. The only question is what happens should Manu ever be fit - does he go to 13 or Faz to 10?

On the coaching front, as we’ve said before Jones isn’t really suited to a 2nd term. Cockers is OK, but our defence and attack coaches are baffling choices, for which Jones is wholly accountable.
 

BPM

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I don't care too much, I didn't find Hill's antics particularly egregious and very much in line with many other second rows. I would have preferred no cards at all from the incident everyone is complaining about as it really wasn't much and the red card was a bit OTT. Anyway, it shouldn't figure into the equation. Hill is probably the best lock currently involved with the England set up and I expect little change in the second row leading up to the world cup.

Biggest concern I currently have on the player front* is at 12 and EJ is showing no sign of addressing it in a satisfactory manner. Par for the course at this stage. The support coaches and staff (and psychology?) are the biggest issue by far. England's systems are pretty woeful and miles behind the curve.

*unless we see a return of the Youngs and Care double act of doom
I’m not sure that’s entirely fair. Eddie can’t pick what we don’t have.

The Smith/Farrell axis has not been great so far, but I can totally understand why he’d want to try it. FWIW, I’d like to persevere with it for the AIs, as the only likely alternative is Farrell at 10 which is IMO, a retrograde step.

Not only that, the injuries to Tuilagi, Slade and Kelly pretty much necessitated it anyway. Porter and Dingwall haven’t played a lot of rugby at 12 and arguably neither is good enough to be a test starter anyway. IMO, Porter looked out of his depth in his preferred position so I’m glad we didn’t pick him in a less familiar role. Perhaps we could have taken Ojomoh, but he’d barely played in the second half of the season and realistically wouldn’t have been starting.
 

Which Tyler

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FWIW, I’d like to persevere with it for the AIs, as the only likely alternative is Farrell at 10 which is IMO, a retrograde step.
So you think Ford's been thrown out completely? Despite being recalled during the 6N, being the best FH in the country, being able to step back in at a moment's notice,and now (hopefully) having put his long term niggly injury behind him?

Perhaps we could have taken Ojomoh, but he’d barely played in the second half of the season and realistically wouldn’t have been starting.
Also injured, IIRC
 

BPM

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So you think Ford's been thrown out completely? Despite being recalled during the 6N, being the best FH in the country, being able to step back in at a moment's notice,and now (hopefully) having put his long term niggly injury behind him?


Also injured, IIRC
Re. Ford, no I don’t think that at all. I actually think the fact he’s is ‘he best FH in the country’ and ‘able to step back in at a moment’s notice’ are the reasons we have an opportunity to give game time to Smith at relatively low risk. If Smith/Farrell doesn’t gel in the next little while, the option to bring back Ford is a very good one to have.

Ford’s injury is fairly long term though. IIRC, the prognosis is that he’ll miss the majority of the season which will rule him out of the AIs and most likely the 6N too.

My post was intended to be a comment on what to do in the AIs, so with Ford out of the picture, the realistic options are: 1) persevere with Smith/Farrell or 2) drop one of them for a centre (probably a fit Tuilagi 🤞or Slade). We all know Farrell would not be the fall guy in that scenario.
 

Which Tyler

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Re. Ford, no I don’t think that at all. I actually think the fact he’s is ‘he best FH in the country’ and ‘able to step back in at a moment’s notice’ are the reasons we have an opportunity to give game time to Smith at relatively low risk. If Smith/Farrell doesn’t gel in the next little while, the option to bring back Ford is a very good one to have.

Ford’s injury is fairly long term though. IIRC, the prognosis is that he’ll miss the majority of the season which will rule him out of the AIs and most likely the 6N too.

My post was intended to be a comment on what to do in the AIs, so with Ford out of the picture, the realistic options are: 1) persevere with Smith/Farrell or 2) drop one of them for a centre (probably a fit Tuilagi 🤞or Slade). We all know Farrell would not be the fall guy in that scenario.
Fair enough, and I absolutely agree on sticking with Smith Farrell for the AIs, on the same principal.

I'd forgotten about him getting injured in the final TBH - I was more talking about his ankle/achilles injury he'd been carrying for a couple of years and seemed to get fixed last summer.
Equally, because I'd forgotten about his new injury, I had him as an option for the AIs (that I wouldn't take, I'd give Smith that one last window to stake his claim for the RWC23).

As for Manu - we simply have to plan without him. If he's fit come this time next year, then get him in camp on the bench for the RWC warm-ups; otherwise others have greater need of the game time.
 

BPM

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Yep. I agree with everything you’ve said there.

Actually, I think planning for Tuilagi’s likely absence is the main reason for persevering with Smith and Farrell. Perhaps I’m overly optimistic, but I like to think they’re both good enough players to make it work. I wouldn’t really put too much stock in Squidge rugby’s analysis, but if Smith can get back to how he was playing in the 6N and Farrell can nail the role Slade was playing, I think we’d be in business.
 
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Old Hooker

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TBH worrying about who wears which midfield shirt is like rearranging the deckchairs on the ***anic until 9 is sorted. All will look much better players given a decisive 9 who has a swift and accurate service. Based on limited evidence it looks like JVP might just be that man. His kicking also looks decent and he seems to have enough of a running threat to keep defences honest.

Then all we have to do is sort out the game plan…..
 

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