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England 2021/22

Welsh Exile

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Sandhurst is about command, not being a lethal killer yourself. Much more emphasis on staying calm and making good decisions to direct others than doing a Rambo. That said I don't remember much skiing or fancy dinners either. It's a percentage, but minor in the grand scheme of things.

Sounds like you're thinking of the US Marine Corps boot camp.
Yes I think I definitely am to be fair. I see what it is now thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I was talking more about basic training and stuff.

Mind you , I love a bit of SAS are you tough enough which does resembles a US boot camp and I’m sure it is 100% realistic as to what goes on in the real life SAS training camps (joke)
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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Yes I think I definitely am to be fair. I see what it is now thanks for clarifying. Yeah, I was talking more about basic training and stuff.

Mind you , I love a bit of SAS are you tough enough which does resembles a US boot camp and I’m sure it is 100% realistic as to what goes on in the real life SAS training camps (joke)
Most people who deploy don’t actually kill anyone by the way. I’ve got a lot of military friends and the whole point of the military to to get someone to follow orders, that’s all there is to it. It’s not a killer mindset or anything like that. Special forces maybe a bit more like that but it’s controlled aggression to achieve an objective.

To be honest I don’t really think the military vs rugby leadership thing flys overall and leadership off the pitch in training and getting things drilled in is maybe more important than the on pitch stuff.
 

Welsh Exile

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Most people who deploy don’t actually kill anyone by the way. I’ve got a lot of military friends and the whole point of the military to to get someone to follow orders, that’s all there is to it. It’s not a killer mindset or anything like that. Special forces maybe a bit more like that but it’s controlled aggression to achieve an objective.

To be honest I don’t really think the military vs rugby leadership thing flys overall and leadership off the pitch in training and getting things drilled in is maybe more important than the on pitch stuff.
Surely they have to train to be able to kill though otherwise they wouldn’t teach you how to fire a gun and follow orders. Sure, I can see how most don’t go out there and have 100 head shots under their belt or nothing but killing the enemy is a pretty key thing in war.
 

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)

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Honestly the problem with English sport IMO lies firmly with the media
Look at the recent Jones private school hot take
Telegraph - 5 articles
Times - 4
Mail - 2
Gaurdian - 1

Journalists love it, why because the majority of sports writers here are masochists and that goes for all sports.
They want the pain, because that sells papers and gets clicks.

They will HATE Borthwick if he is the next coach "Borthwick doesn't tell journalists anything" will only go so far till they start writing questioning articles about English transparency with the media. They love to build up the tiniest bit of hype because they know the fall will be higher.

Eddie is certainly a troll he makes a valid point and covers it in **** to feed the flies.
 

Old Hooker

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Our media is what it is. What it’s long been and won’t get any better as consumers now demand saturation coverage and new content every 3 seconds.

Jones may not like it, but he’s the loosest of cannons who has chosen to swim with the sharks……others don’t have to, although some media is part of the job.

Dull’s fine. Southgate, under far more scrutiny than any rugby coach will be, has it right. Dull, but also makes himself available to the press and always acts professionally. He doesn’t hurl petrol on fires with loose lips. Decent results helping of course.
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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Surely they have to train to be able to kill though otherwise they wouldn’t teach you how to fire a gun and follow orders. Sure, I can see how most don’t go out there and have 100 head shots under their belt or nothing but killing the enemy is a pretty key thing in war.
Maybe one for another topic but shooting a gun at a target 100-300 yards away isn’t a killer mindset. Most of the killing is done by other means these days rather than by the general military.

It’s all about following orders which is mostly standing around or helping people skilled do something but mostly standing or sitting around.
 

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)

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Our media is what it is. What it’s long been and won’t get any better as consumers now demand saturation coverage and new content every 3 seconds.

Jones may not like it, but he’s the loosest of cannons who has chosen to swim with the sharks……others don’t have to, although some media is part of the job.

Dull’s fine. Southgate, under far more scrutiny than any rugby coach will be, has it right. Dull, but also makes himself available to the press and always acts professionally. He doesn’t hurl petrol on fires with loose lips. Decent results helping of course.

I mean didn’t really go well for our last dull coach though
 

Old Hooker

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I mean didn’t really go well for our last dull coach though
Nope but that was a simple case of being out of his depth. He could have been Barnum the Showman and it still wouldn’t have worked.

I don’t mind big characters at all, but the role doesn’t necessarily need one - just someone who won’t be fazed by the demands. Where I have a problem with Jones is that he shoots from the hip often talking palpable nonsense and gets himself into scraps that could easily be avoided - to no benefit to the team and his own personal detriment. EDIT: TBH he doesn’t look like a man enjoying his job, which would bring its own difficulties.
 
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Duck a l'Orange

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Top 5 most capped England players:

1) Ben Youngs - 117
2) Jason Leonard - 114
3) Dylan Hartley - 97
4) Owen Farrell - 97
5) Courtney Lawes - 96

Three out of five still playing. Funny to think they'll be talked about in the same way as Leonard in a few years.
 

HamJan

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Surely they have to train to be able to kill though otherwise they wouldn’t teach you how to fire a gun and follow orders. Sure, I can see how most don’t go out there and have 100 head shots under their belt or nothing but killing the enemy is a pretty key thing in war.
You seem to have a fixation with talking about killing on a rugby forum. Do you think you need to speak to a medical professional?
 

Old Hooker

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Top 5 most capped England players:

1) Ben Youngs - 117
2) Jason Leonard - 114
3) Dylan Hartley - 97
4) Owen Farrell - 97
5) Courtney Lawes - 96

Three out of five still playing. Funny to think they'll be talked about in the same way as Leonard in a few years.
Nah. Between the lot of them they couldn’t out drink the fun bus.
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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People in the future are going to download clips of Ben Youngs and think the video is still buffering when actually he’s just still not passed the ball.

At least has moments of brilliance, Farrell is the definition of average in every aspect of his game but as he seems to train so well the coaches love him. Shame he can’t show that on the pitch.
 

Old Hooker

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People in the future are going to download clips of Ben Youngs and think the video is still buffering when actually he’s just still not passed the ball.

At least has moments of brilliance, Farrell is the definition of average in every aspect of his game but as he seems to train so well the coaches love him. Shame he can’t show that on the pitch.
That’s harsh on Farrell. Unless you’re just talking recently?

For a while, Iceman was deserved. And he’s always stood up for the fight when others have gone missing.

And at times we have played some really good rugby with him in the team. Not often enough in recent seasons, but Dan Carter and Ma’a Nonu would have struggled with the imposed game plan and slow lousy service from 9.

He also had to take on the captaincy. Unsuited, but who else was there? He has also had to play out of his preferred position for much of the time as well. Unsuited, but who else was there?

All time great, probably not. Worthy of more respect than he gets? Absolutely. Although I do think he should have been replaced by now but he’s a Jones Undroppable.

And he gets his place in the pantheon for the sneer at the 2019 SF haka alone.
 

Don't Skip Leg Day

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That’s harsh on Farrell. Unless you’re just talking recently?

For a while, Iceman was deserved. And he’s always stood up for the fight when others have gone missing.

And at times we have played some really good rugby with him in the team. Not often enough in recent seasons, but Dan Carter and Ma’a Nonu would have struggled with the imposed game plan and slow lousy service from 9.

He also had to take on the captaincy. Unsuited, but who else was there? He has also had to play out of his preferred position for much of the time as well. Unsuited, but who else was there?

All time great, probably not. Worthy of more respect than he gets? Absolutely. Although I do think he should have been replaced by now but he’s a Jones Undroppable.

And he gets his place in the pantheon for the sneer at the 2019 SF haka alone.
I’m not saying he’s bad but what has he ever been better than internationally average at?
Passing? Stepping? Kicking? Speed? Tackling?

All I’m saying is, while he may not have a major weakness he’s never had any attributes that are ‘a point of difference’. He could of excelled with a superstar 9 and 12 but he alone doesn’t offer that extra special something.
 

LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)

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IMO not a great look

"All of a sudden I'm competing against Chris Ashton for the [England wing] spot, I'm like 'I was on tour I did Lions, why am I having to compete'.

"But obviously I'm trained to have an underdog mentality because of how I've always been overlooked, so whatever, bring it on.

"So Ashton gets picked for Australia, under pressure because the media were asking why I wasn't playing. We just about won and he didn't really do nothing [sic], but that's usual anyway, I don't know why people get excited about him cause he just gets on the end of everything.

"If I played in the teams he played in I would've had the number one record [for most Premiership tries] five, six years ago."

Ashton comes across as a bit of a knob, but if a Pro winger can't see what Ashton brings to the table then he should look at himself, Ashton is IMO one of the best strike runners ever in Rugby Union his lines and ability to read defensive lines in his prime (Even now) is second to none. Didn't have the natural talent Wade had but Ashton is one of the all time great finishers IMO.
 

TRF_Olyy

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Yeah comes across as a right ********
 

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