England 2023/24

[Scotty]

So who will stay in the squad and who is there just for the exposer do we think?

 

[BPM]

I can't see Oghre making it. I expect our hooker options to be George, Dan and on of LCD or (preferably) Langdon. I like Oghre, I just don't see him making it at test level. Blamire, Blake and Riley can feel hard done by to have been left out. Walker less so.

Atkinson surely doesn't tour barring injury to Ford or the Smiths.

The rest all have a pretty decent shout IMO.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Oghre is pretty ****

No top 4 sides so not reading too much into it

I've quite enjoyed Oghre recently; he's definitely improving, but 6th choice is probably about where he's at (and he's obviously lost the 'player with potential' spot to Dan)

Can't quite see what a squad of 19 players is actually going to do, apart from individual skills and S+C. Maybe that's it, just a chance for some juicy data..?

 

[West Country Wail]

I would have put Skinner into camp over Atkinson as I think the latter has not met the standard over the past few seasons

 

[Scotty]

I would have put Skinner into camp over Atkinson as I think the latter has not met the standard over the past few seasons

Its an odd 1 as i dont see Skinner as stepping up to England, i like the guy but he's just a good prem player imo. Ive not seen Atkinson much this season so cant say anything on comparison.

 

[West Country Wail]

Its an odd 1 as i dont see Skinner as stepping up to England, i like the guy but he's just a good prem player imo. Ive not seen Atkinson much this season so cant say anything on comparison.

He is English and better than Atkinson. Thats all you need to know.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Honestly watching Friday Mercer really didn't help himself
Going Gloucester was his worse move

Yep.

But also quite clear he's not going to get a look in under SB for whatever reason. It is what it is, but it feels a waste of a talent and it wouldn't surprise me if he does look at other club, if not international, options.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yep.

But also quite clear he's not going to get a look in under SB for whatever reason. It is what it is, but it feels a waste of a talent and it wouldn't surprise me if he does look at other club, if not international, options.

If I was Mercer I'd 100% just go back to France.
It's odd that for whatever reason he's not even favour and even stranger that he's not even been given a chance in the squads nor got game time.

I'm really Interested to see what SB does with the backrow. Does Earl stay at 8 or move to 7?
Does another lock come in at 6 or a proper 6?
Do any of the other 8s get a look in? Barbeary, Willis, Mercer or even CCS or Dombrant.

Then there is the whole centre debate as I'm guessing Lawrence will be injured at some point as that always seems to happen around this time.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Earl's an interesting one.

A year ago he was still a bit part player and now seen as indispensable. But his club form's fallen off a bit - was he just going through a purple patch or is he the long term answer at 8? Will his effectiveness drop as the opposition now start to figure him out? Should he be in the mix for either 7 or 8 depending on who else is available or in form?

People will fairly compare with Savea. But because his game relies so heavily on athleticism, more than most, he strikes me as someone whose impact will quite noticeably diminish if he's not fully on it or carrying an injury. (Which can be said for most people and is probably unfair, but life generally is).

 

[Reiser99]

Mercer did publically lash out and say he's done with England. I imagine even if Borthwick does think he's good enough, he wouldn't select him until Mercer apologises privately.

 

[BPM]

If I was Mercer I'd 100% just go back to France.
It's odd that for whatever reason he's not even favour and even stranger that he's not even been given a chance in the squads nor got game time.

I'm really Interested to see what SB does with the backrow. Does Earl stay at 8 or move to 7?
Does another lock come in at 6 or a proper 6?
Do any of the other 8s get a look in? Barbeary, Willis, Mercer or even CCS or Dombrant.

Then there is the whole centre debate as I'm guessing Lawrence will be injured at some point as that always seems to happen around this time.

I don't think it's that odd at all TBH. He has a lot of good competition and has had a mixed season.

Earl is the man in possession of the shirt and I'd question whether Mercer has done any better than Dombrandt, Barbeary or Willis? I do think he's a fair bit better than Fisilau who looks promising but a bit unremarkable IMO.

I think CCS is focusing on 6 (a good thing for England IMO).

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Earl's an interesting one.

A year ago he was still a bit part player and now seen as indispensable. But his club form's fallen off a bit - was he just going through a purple patch or is he the long term answer at 8? Will his effectiveness drop as the opposition now start to figure him out? Should he be in the mix for either 7 or 8 depending on who else is available or in form?

People will fairly compare with Savea. But because his game relies so heavily on athleticism, more than most, he strikes me as someone whose impact will quite noticeably diminish if he's not fully on it or carrying an injury. (Which can be said for most people and is probably unfair, but life generally is).

Ben Earl club form has dropped since playing at 7.


He's not a fetching openside, like the others.
His form at 8 has been great

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Ben Earl club form has dropped since playing at 7.


He's not a fetching openside, like the others.
His form at 8 has been great

His club form pre 6 Nations wasn't that great either, yet he still had an outstanding tournament (granted, he was still coming back from injury at that point). Think he's just a guy who steps his game up a level internationally. For me his international form has been good enough that he's kinda earned the right to not go 100% at club level if it means preserving his body. Unless his international form also starts to wane then he's a shoe in.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Mercer did publically lash out and say he's done with England. I imagine even if Borthwick does think he's good enough, he wouldn't select him until Mercer apologises privately.

That's not really correct, if you read the article and listen to the interview he did you'll see that the media twisted things (as usual).

To summarise, he basically said he wasn't in SB plans (after speaking to SB), so he will stop focusing on England and just focus on Gloucester for a while. Can't remember the exact but that's what the theme was. It wasn't a negative thing at all.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Itoje to tour regardless of minutes as expected.

Perhaps more interesting is Sanderson saying it's a stretch to see T Curry playing past 30 and that the chronic nature of his condition probably means surgery every couple of years anyhow.

England to pick Maro Itoje despite just 169 minutes left on playing limit

Saracens second row on brink of breaking key welfare safeguard which stipulates that players should not exceed 2,400 minutes over a season

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Itoje to tour regardless of minutes as expected.

Perhaps more interesting is Sanderson saying it's a stretch to see T Curry playing past 30 and that the chronic nature of his condition probably means surgery every couple of years anyhow.

England to pick Maro Itoje despite just 169 minutes left on playing limit

Saracens second row on brink of breaking key welfare safeguard which stipulates that players should not exceed 2,400 minutes over a season

www.telegraph.co.uk

They both need a year off. Rugby is going to get sued into oblivion for 19 different reasons even after (if it survives) the head injury issue.

 

[Scotty]

Itoje to tour regardless of minutes as expected.

Perhaps more interesting is Sanderson saying it's a stretch to see T Curry playing past 30 and that the chronic nature of his condition probably means surgery every couple of years anyhow.

England to pick Maro Itoje despite just 169 minutes left on playing limit

Saracens second row on brink of breaking key welfare safeguard which stipulates that players should not exceed 2,400 minutes over a season

www.telegraph.co.uk

Thats insane 169mins left....with 2 play off games plus 3 summer tour games....is it worth even taking him?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If we had a fit and firing Chessum, I'd say let Itoje take the summer off as it's probably better for England/ him in the long run. But without Chessum we look light in the lock department.

Also how has it got to this point with Itoje playing this many minutes. It can't be a shock. Is it Sarries or England that get to manage this?

 

[Saintjay]

If we had a fit and firing Chessum, I'd say let Itoje take the summer off as it's probably better for England/ him in the long run. But without Chessum we look light in the lock department.

Also how has it got to this point with Itoje playing this many minutes. It can't be a shock. Is it Sarries or England that get to manage this?

I'll assume it is Sarries. On the basis they pay his wages. If England want him to be rested they'd have to contribute to his income and do this for every team with England players.

Probably the best argument for central / duel contracts. Tbh I've no idea what is currently happening with them.

 

[Scotty]

I'll assume it is Sarries. On the basis they pay his wages. If England want him to be rested they'd have to contribute to his income and do this for every team with England players.

Probably the best argument for central / duel contracts. Tbh I've no idea what is currently happening with them.

Random question but lets say he plays for Sarries and for what ever reason he uses 109 of the 169 min he's got 60 left.

Is he allowed to bench with the intention of playing 20 20 20. As If he comes on for an injury minute 1 he cant play the full game(technically, as i know its a welfare rule they would let him play the 80)