England 2024/25

[Scotty]

Given the ages of the 2 Smiths we arnt taking experience away from a young 10 by having for there.

And tbh I dont think any other 10s in the league are putting up their hand. He's playing well enough have to be dislodged.

I really like the dynamic, the 2 Smith's have many years left to develop further and retain the shirt, with Ford always pushing them for it back until his form drops. And having his dropgoal ability is useful.

 

[BPM]

I think we're in a great position where all three are serious contenders for the starting jersey and we can either pick on form or for the gameplan.

Ford was immense in Argentina and has done well enough to keep his place. However, both Smiths immediately looked good last round and will want to make a case for taking the shirt from him.

It would be useful for another 10 to emerge as a breakthrough option who we can incubate in the England A set-up but at present the main contenders for that spot either aren't starting (Bailey/Donoghue) or not playing at 10 (Benson/C. Atkinson).

In theory Bailey has the best opportunity to be starting at 10 but it's not working out like that right now. Benson playing at 12 isn't the best audition either, but starting and building his experience overall is better than sitting on the bench.

Between now and 2027, I'd like to think the fourth choice will become more obvious and we can thing elevate them to third choice (replacing Ford) post RWC.

 

[Reiser99]

My view is which option benefits England the most, not necessarily the players. If all 3 could justifiably be picked, then who getting the experience is going to benefit England the most. It would be different if there was a noticeable drop in quality and it might actuslly hurt England's chances of winning, but if the difference is negligible, then how is giving Ford at this stage of his career more game time going to help?

 

[BPM]

I hear you, but OTOH, there is decent an argument to say Ford is the most accomplished all round 10 we have. He's at the latter end of his career but not ancient and barring a significant drop off over the next couple of seasons, it's not inconceivable to think he could be our RWC 10.

He wouldn't be my choice, but I wouldn't be overly aggrieved to see him starting.

A lot also depends on how much influence Blackett has here. With the three options available all offering something different, it might depend on his vision for the attack and who has the best skillset for executing it.

 

[Scotty]

My view is which option benefits England the most, not necessarily the players. If all 3 could justifiably be picked, then who getting the experience is going to benefit England the most. It would be different if there was a noticeable drop in quality and it might actuslly hurt England's chances of winning, but if the difference is negligible, then how is giving Ford at this stage of his career more game time going to help?

Let's say (hypothetically) Ford stepped his game in the prem to the next level and was clear first choice on form whilst the other 2 were going well.

I'd not want Ford starting vs any tier 2 nation, a game or game we should be winning comfortably as its good experience for the others but on the other hand if Ford is the best player and you choose to start the others in the big games your hurting Englands chance and not driving the others to push to surpass him and earn the shirt.

It's a balance dont get me wrong, I don't want a Ben Youngs situation where we had him massively experienced and the rest missing out. A good Balance gets England the most wins in the short term and pushers players longer term IMO.

 

[BPM]

The big difference with the Youngs situation is that we didn't really have anyone really putting their hand up before Mitchell came through. Robson, Spencer etc. just didn't convince.

In this scenario, we already know either Smith is very capable of performing at test level so if they're all fit, it should simply be about who is the best choice at the time on form and for the gameplan. That could be any one of them which is a nice position to be in.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Has Sleightholme forgotten he's a winger?

Give the man the 12 shirt (or the 2 shirt…)

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Fin Smith owns the 10 shirt currently, the only reason we saw Ford was because he was called up to the lions. Ford doesn't then usurp the owner of the shirt in the same say we don't just out our lions to the back of the selection list over those who were there in Argentina.

 

[Saintjay]

I think consistency and knowing those around you plays a big part. Chopping and changing isn't always a good thing.

Part of the issue for Marcus is we don't have a regular fit starting fullback. So he's in the cover bracket, also I'm not sure when he was given a chance as starting 10. Were England particularly good, granted that's not all on him.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think consistency and knowing those around you plays a big part. Chopping and changing isn't always a good thing.

Part of the issue for Marcus is we don't have a regular fit starting fullback. So he's in the cover bracket, also I'm not sure when he was given a chance as starting 10. Were England particularly good, granted that's not all on him.

It certainly felt like people often weren't on his wavelength, he'd see an opportunity but nobody else would be responding as they were just going through the motions.

 

[Scotty]

Fin Smith owns the 10 shirt currently, the only reason we saw Ford was because he was called up to the lions. Ford doesn't then usurp the owner of the shirt in the same say we don't just out our lions to the back of the selection list over those who were there in Argentina.

I agree, and I think most do here, he is an all round class player who can perform at this level and who's clubs played a good brand of rugby for years.

Tbh with Blackett as attack coach I'm excited to see way he does going forward as all 3 players are very different but can fit well into a more attack focused gameplan where kicking is tactical not not hopeful of creating something.

 

[Scotty]

Hows Furbank doing? When is he due back? I'm just curious.

 

[BPM]

Well he appears to be in training based upon today's photos but they're static shots of him and Sleightholme walking around. Looks like early days.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lovely bit of central contract drama

The hamstring issue Ben Curry went off with last week needs surgery, but isn't an immediate need (it's an irritation around the scarring from a previous surgery, or something along those lines, that can be managed, but needs surgery to fully fix) - Sale want him to go into surgery ASAP, England want him to rest it now and have the surgery after the AIs so he can play in them and then be back for the 6N
So essentially England want him to not be available for Sale until Rd 11

Club has won out in the end and he's gone in for surgery this week
3-6 weeks recovery (guessing closer to the latter than the former, from what they were saying before)
TC due back in the autumn, rather than the predicted winter

England handed mixed news over availability of Curry brothers

Ben Curry will miss England’s Autumn Nations Series campaign after undergoing surgery to solve a hamstring problem...

www.rugbypass.com

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Sanity prevails

 

[OllyM97]

Referees for the AI's
v Australia - Nika Amashukeli
v New Zealand - Andrea Piardi
v Fiji - Paul Williams
v Argentina - Pierre Brousset

I may be wrong, but IIRC I don't think Piardi has ever refereed us before. He's only refereed NZ twice, both at Eden Park where home team reffing is the law. Amashukeli against Aus gets a big from me. Think he's a quality ref who we've done well under.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

One more hurdle to clear before England get their man

Sale boss Alex Sanderson hopes Byron McGuigan won't be prevented from joining Steve Borthwick's coaching team this Autumn.

www.rugbypass.com

 

[Reiser99]

One more hurdle to clear before England get their man

Sale boss Alex Sanderson hopes Byron McGuigan won't be prevented from joining Steve Borthwick's coaching team this Autumn.

www.rugbypass.com

If this happens then where will Wigglesworth be shunted to next? Predicting random bounces coach?
How to pick the ball off the floor coach?
Best way to eat an orange coach?

 

[Which Tyler]

If this happens then where will Wigglesworth be shunted to next? Predicting random bounces coach?
How to pick the ball off the floor coach?
Best way to eat an orange coach?

Scrum and lineout

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If this happens then where will Wigglesworth be shunted to next? Predicting random bounces coach?
How to pick the ball off the floor coach?
Best way to eat an orange coach?

Adaptability coach