England EPS 2016/17 season.

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by Tigs Man, Jun 26, 2016.

  1. TobyBeastTeague

    TobyBeastTeague First XV

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    Well you say that but every time he's come back he's been "full fit." Seems tonne like each time he's been rushed. Which is understandable when he's such a valuable commodity, but I'd like to see him given more rest. A year is probably too long though I'll admit.
     
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  3. Tigs Man

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    yeh its's been a different injury though. Its gone like Hamstring, Groin, knee

    how can you account for a player landing on this knee and tearing his ACL during a game?

    I mean he has been out since jan and won't be playing till august so that is what 8 months.
     
  4. TobyBeastTeague

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    My 45-Man EPS for the new season:
    1. Marler/Vunipola/Genge/Mullan - Picks itself.
    2. George/LCD/Taylor/Hartley - This is, for me, the time when the 3 younger hookers should leapfrog Hartley now that George will hopefully be seen as the starter . I'd keep Hartley around for his experience though.
    3. Cole/Sinckler/Williams/Hill - Cole and Sinckler pick themselves, after that you've got to pick 2 from Williams, Hill and Collier. Of opted for the prior two due to them having higher ceilings IMO.
    4/5. Itoje/Launchbury/Ewels/Lawes/Kruis - Picks itself.
    6. Robshaw/Wilson/Thompson - I believe Robshaw, Wilson and Armand to be the 3 best 6s in the country but due to all 3 being 28+ years of age I've opted to include Thompson as potentially being a young option in the future. IMO Thompson has been the best EQP at Wasps over the last couple of years and definitely deserves a shot at international level.
    7. Haskell/Underhill/Curry, Tom - Harsh to leave out Ben but I see no advantage to having both of them in the squad. We've got the player depth now to be able to choose styles of player in each position so to take 2 players who are quite literally identical makes no sense to me. It's harsh on Ben but Tom's the one who has to some degree proven himself internationally and is the one I'd keep on.
    8. Vunipola/Hughes/Mercer - Vunipola and Hughes are shoe-ins, Mercer has a huge amount of potential, was a tier above everyone else in a very impressive U20 side. Very different style of 8 to Vunipola and Hughes which I am a fan of.
    9. Youngs/Care/Maunder - 3rd spot is very much up for grabs between Maunder, Robson and Townsend but for me Maunder just about edges it.
    10. Ford/Lozowski - A worrying lack of serious 10 and 12 options. Lots of what I see as 'meh' options such as Lozowski and Francis but no outstanding candidates.
    12. Farrell/Te'o/Francis - Same as 10.
    13. Joseph/Tuilagi/Marchant - Taking Daly as a 15 to accommodate fitting both Tuilagi and Marchant into the squad. An in form Tuilagi should start and Marchant has serious potential.
    11/14. May/Solomona/Nowell/Earle/Cokonasiga - May and Nowell are both reliable options and Solomona, Earle and Cokonasiga could all prove to be stars if raised correctly.
    15. Watson/Daly/Brown - Same as at hooker, I hope to see Watson and Daly leap frog Brown but I'd keep Brown around for experience.
     
  5. BPM

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    I'd agree that Guy Thompson has been one of the best EQ players at Wasps, but he's not that young ... he's 29 I think? If Eddie was going to give him a shot, I think he would have done so by now.

    My 45 as follows:

    1. Marler / M. Vunipola / Genge / Mullan - I agree this picks itself.

    2. Hartley / George / Cowan-Dickie / Taylor - I think Hartley will be around a touch longer - definitely if Eddie rests George for the AIs. I'd like to see whoever is in better form out of Cowan-Dickie or Taylor get some decent game time in the AIs.

    3. Cole / Sinckler / Williams / Collier - tough on Hill, but he hasn't been in sparkling form for a while and Collier did well in Argentina.

    4/5. Itoje / Kruis / Launchbury / Lawes / Ewels - picks itself again.

    6. Robshaw / Wilson - Wilson really grasped his chance to be Robshaw's understudy IMO. I feel like Wood is a retrograde step and in the absence of another stand-out 6, I'd have Haskell and potentially Ben Curry covering 6 and 7.

    7. Haskell / Underhill / B. Curry / T. Curry - perhaps a bit bold, but Ben was better for Sale than Tom so I think he deserves a shot.

    8. B. Vunipola / Hughes / Mercer - Billy and Hughes are the obvious options with Mercer as the up-and-coming alternative.

    9. Youngs / Care / Maunder - really a toss-up for third spot. I'd pick on form betweeen Maunder, Townsend and Robson.

    10. Ford / Farrell / Lozowski - picks itself IMO.

    11. Daly / May - Daly looks established as a test winger now. I'd still like to see him at fullback, but Watson is the likelier of the two.

    12. Te'o / Francis - Te'o is a definite pick and Francis edges Slade IMO.

    13. Joseph / Marchant / Tuilagi - a good balance of options - particularly if Tuilagi is fit.

    14. Nowell / Yarde / Solomona / Cokanasiga - Yarde has his detractors, but I think his scoring record puts him ahead of Earle who is still yet to break through with Sarries.

    15. Brown / Watson - we need to take the opportunity to try Watson at 15 ASAP, simple as that.

    FYI. My 1-15 is by position - not necessarily a first-choice XV - I'd actually have Farrel at 12 and Watson at 15.
     
  6. TobyBeastTeague

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    Oh you're right, he's 30 now. For some reason I was under the impression that he's relatively early 20s. In that case replace him with James Chisholm.
     
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  7. BPM

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    James Chisholm has got a lot of potential, but he'd need at least one more stand-out season to be on the radar IMO.

    Sam Jones could be in with a shout at 6, but I have no idea on his injury situation.

    From the latest Quins training video, it looks as though Clifford is fit enough to train so I'll be curious to see how/where he lines up for us this season. I think he's best at 8, but arguably a back row of Robshaw at 6, Clifford at 7 and Chisholm at 8 is the best balance of their respective talents.
     
  8. Tigs Man

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    Williams has alot of potential but was pretty poor in Argentina would have Hill ahead of him currently.

    Hopefully Saints will actually play Hill this season.
     
  9. Chief Pete

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    From an England point of view, was hoping Hill would move on to get regular game time, far better than Brookes IMO...
     
  10. Tigs Man

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    i'm kind of hoping Leicester are starting a charm offensive on him TBH. Would be good to have a young upcoming TH that could take over from cole with 30/25 to go and increase the tempo.

    Like Cole did with Castro or Castro did with White.
     
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  11. Chief Pete

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    That's a good shout, he'd be a cornerstone of your pack for the next 8 - 10 years...
     
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  12. BPM

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    Agreed. He needs to get away from Saints. It seems as though West is almost universally hated which can't help!
     
  13. Tigs Man

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    him and Genge would be great to have on either side.
     
  14. ratsapprentice

    ratsapprentice Hall of Fame

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    Don't think they'll end up getting less money.... just it won't be from traditional tv broadcast deals, it'll be YT/FB/Twitter/Amazon/a.n other.
     
  15. TobyBeastTeague

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    Would be quite lightweight though wouldn't it? Not quite the Tigers style.
     
  16. Tigs Man

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    I don't think so. I mean what do you mean by Leightweight? as Cole and Ayerza are not exactly big props TBF. Tigers props have always been about technique rather than size and Stanko is one of the best scrum coaches in the league IMO.

    Genge has improved a **** loads in the scrum for us.
     
  17. TobyBeastTeague

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    After looking at some weight stats you're right that Genge-Hill would only actually be 1kg lighter than Ayerza-Cole. But I mean more their styles of open play. Both Ayerza and Cole are both what I'd consider to be very "strong" carriers, not gonna go in with much speed or power but will grind metres with their strength. Genge is seriously powerful but not what I'd consider to be exceptionally strong and Hill just isn't much of a carrier at all. When both of your props lack that ability to really grind metres in the tight areas I think you're gonna really lack a solid attacking platform. Plus Hill just isn't that strong in the scrum and although Genge has improved lots in the scrum Argentina showed that without a strong scrummager on the other side he can struggle.
     
  18. BPM

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    I have a lot of time for Dan Cole as a player, but he is a shocking carrier. Admittedly I haven't looked at the stats but my impression is that he almost always goes straight to ground and barely makes any metres. If anything, I think he doesn't trust his own strength and doesn't back himself as much as he probably could.
     
  19. Tigs Man

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    Dan Cole has been called plenty of things by plenty of people but a ball carrier is not one of them.

    Would be surprised if Cole has made more than 50m in his entire pro career.
     
  20. ratsapprentice

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    At least half of that 50m was made on the Lions tour.
     
  21. Goodey

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    Scored 3 tries for England since Jones took over iirc?

    Must be doing something right. You don't see him get turned over like Genge does either.
     
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