England fly-half

[j'nuh]

Now we are in a pickle.

Flood has confirmed a move to France.
Burns is a patch of terrible form and is visibly frustrated and upset with everything going on around him. Has been dropped to the bench in the most recent game.
Farrell went off injured today, not sure the extent of the injury just yet.

What now?

If the France-rule keeps Flood out of the reckoning for 2015, I think we should drop him from the EPS in Jan.

All of this surely paves the way for Ford and Cipriani getting into the England squad. I didn't think this would happen so soon.

What is your pecking order?

 

[Draggs]

I'll beat Olyy to the thread and say Cipriani.

 

[j'nuh]

I'd have laughed at the thought of it at the start of the season, and yet here we are.

 

[Peat]

If Flood's the best man at the time, I would keep using him until he physically goes to France. Not sure anyone - including Lancaster - will agree though.

Until we see the extent of Farrell's injury and the form profile of the contenders closer to the time, I'm not seeing a huge amount to add to this though. Its a huge shame that a majority of the contenders will be playing Amlin rugby in three-four weeks' time, not Heineken.

 

[Rhyer]

George Ford and Danny Cipriani. Pretty easy really.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think it's between Ford and Cipriani for the 3rd EPS spot, I can't see Bruns being demoted.

I think Slade will be brought into the Saxons.
I have to admit I wasn't that impressed by him in the U20's, but he looked the real deal in the HC.

Farrell was up and about before the game had finished, so I suspect it's just concussion.
Although if it is, it will no doubt be labelled as "minor".

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Nick Macleod!





Normally I'd agree with Peat, and say keep playing the best possible player (if that's Flood, then so be it) until they're no longer available (i.e. go to France). However by the time the 6 Nations comes around we'll be a year-ish away from the World Cup, with only Farrell having played any real game time.
If Flood confirms his move to France (which he will) then, sadly, I'd replace him in the EPS straight away.
I'd go for Cipriani, as many would guess, but I wouldn't be too too aggrieved to see Ford there. Burns is already in the EPS, but I think it'll take a remarkable turn of fortunes for him to be back in the England 23 for the 6N.

 

[j'nuh]

Long-term, I wouldn't be too surprised if Lancaster decided to take just two fly-halves and have Twelvetrees cover 10. Then play:

10. Farrell 12. Twelvetrees 13. Tuilagi 21. Barritt/other centre

with another fly-half in the squad.

I wouldn't do it, but it wouldn't surprise me if it happened.

 

[Peat]

While I think the idea of Twelvetrees as international 10 cover without a lot more gametime there is clucking rental, the idea of Lancaster only retaining two fly-halves in the EPS isn't. All he has to do is swap out Flood for a promising young buck in the Saxons, job done. If Farrell or Burns picks up a knock, then he can just recall Flood - one of the good things about Flood is he shouldn't take long to slot back in. Of course, this all presumes Farrell and Burns being guys you'd want/are able to play coming up to the 6N.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Just to confirm... it shouldn't be Lamb.

God he was awful today.

 

[j'nuh]

Just to confirm... it shouldn't be Lamb.

God he was awful today.

x 1,000,000

Let Lamb be a reminder to Freddie as to what happens when maverick 10s leave Gloucester.

 

[Patchey]

Got to be Cips. Never thought I'd say it but he has been consistently good this season whereas Ford has gone from looking like a real star one week to like he's only just picked up a rugby ball the next.


The really interesting question is what Lancaster does concerning Flood. Does he, as Peat suggests, keep picking him until after the summer tour or, and this is what I suspect, considering how badly Flood has been treated in the past, just drop him and pick Cipriani/Ford?

Of course, I wouldn't put it past Farrell Sr to start picking Alex Goode as a back up ten.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Of course, I wouldn't put it past Farrell Sr to start picking Alex Goode as a back up ten.

Jesus Christ, don't tempt fate!
He's had a few starts at 10 this year too

 

[Tony Manx]

Of course, I wouldn't put it past Farrell Sr to start picking Alex Goode as a back up ten.

Certainly would justify Flood's decision to go for the money!

 

[Patchey]

Jesus Christ, don't tempt fate!
He's had a few starts at 10 this year too

Don;t you remember prior to the Argentina tour? Goode was selected in the squad and the reason Lancaster gave for only have Myler and Burns at ten was so they would try out Goode at fly-half as well.

I'm pretty sure my copy of Rugby Challenge has Goode listed as a fly-half as well.

It is fated to be.

 

[Peat]

To kinda repeat what I've said - do we need a third fly-half in the EPS?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

If we know Flood is going to be unavailable then I say drop him now. We need to build for the future and letting a player we know is not going to be available soon take the space of a new talent that will be available seems foolish to me. Why waste an extra year where we could get a replacement in just to cling to some older person with no future? I've ranted about this before and highlighted it as the reason England plumetted after 2003. Making the same mistake again would be extremely stupid...

 

[McTallshort]

To kinda repeat what I've said - do we need a third fly-half in the EPS?

Yes because the first choice one is crap.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

To kinda repeat what I've said - do we need a third fly-half in the EPS?

Theoretically no, as both 36 and Goode can cover from the pitch if we lose both mid game, but in an ideal world yes, as Farrell is muck.
Lancaster will happily keep two, though.

 

[Peat]

If we know Flood is going to be unavailable then I say drop him now. We need to build for the future and letting a player we know is not going to be available soon take the space of a new talent that will be available seems foolish to me. Why waste an extra year where we could get a replacement in just to cling to some older person with no future? I've ranted about this before and highlighted it as the reason England plumetted after 2003. Making the same mistake again would be extremely stupid...

Three main reasons

1) Sometimes the replacement is not ready. This one may be true; Flood still stands alone on a level of proven possible international performance.

2) Sometimes the outgoing guy is needed to steady the ship while new guys are brought in elsewhere. There's certainly an argument to be made there - we will have an inexperienced 12, a completely new 13 and ideally new wingers as well.

3) Establishing a culture of winning and momentum in the guys going forwards can sometimes be more valuable than caps for a new guy. There's an argument here too; everyone in the squad is good for two more years; pretty much everyone bar Parling, Johnson, Brown and Foden should be good for five more years; there's eighteen players where it's not overly optimistic to imagine them still contributing 8 years down the line.

I'm not saying these are conclusive arguments, but they do deserve consideration. The 2003 experience is not relevant. We are not, fingers crossed, about to undergo a massive rupture between union and clubs, or lose our biggest competitive edge, or lose a seminal coach, or suffer horrendously bad injury luck with guys who should have been the core of the next generation - Wilko, Thompson, Moody, Abbott, JSD, Woodman to pick the obvious ones - all of which helped caused what followed there.

Yes because the first choice one is crap.

BAZINGA! Good point.

Theoretically no, as both 36 and Goode can cover from the pitch if we lose both mid game, but in an ideal world yes, as Farrell is muck.
Lancaster will happily keep two, though.

Who picks all 3 specialist fly-halves in a match day 23 anyway? Except for guys with insanely talented fly-halves, which is not us.