[England] Post-6N/Pre-RWC Player Watch

Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by Patchey, Apr 6, 2015.

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  1. ncurd

    ncurd Senior Member

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    Hence why I didn't say your article was great....actually it was pretty good to it's just Peat's was pretty much entirely in line with my opinions.
     
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  3. goodNumber10

    goodNumber10 Senior Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  4. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    But how you go about those team skills depends on the game plan. Do you have one person shadowing the ball carrier to contest isolated opposition rucks, or do you rely on every player being able to do it? Do you want to jackal and go digging for the ball, or do you want to focus mainly on counter-rucking while on your feet to slow down the ball with less risk of a penalty?

    Do you tell your support runners to look for offloads, or do you tell them to be ready for the ruck and forget about them?

    Do you have your forwards come around the corner, or playing off of one of their own? Or even picking and going? Would you look to maul it in the loose? Or are you constantly playing one out, two out, trying to keep the ball moving and stretch their defence?

    And so on.

    This is a search for understanding. Understanding what England hope to achieve and why they do things is a first step to considering whether they should be attempting things. The game plan is what England hope to achieve.

    I would suggest that not every team is equally good at every team skill, and so the game plan should seek to maximise strengths and minimise weaknesses. New Zealand don't look to maul or scrum for penalties as a rule, and there's more to that than having a very good backline. Ireland put a huge emphasis on the kick chase to help disguise the fact they're not so hot getting over the gain line.

    Would be interesting to consider what team skills England do well/not well mind.

    Does the national side have to play a certain way to get minis to adopt it and do you think this current team is capable of adopting it to a successful standard?

    True. Well, woeful might be overstating it, but it certainly doesn't seem to be a strength.

    Depends what iteration you're talking about I guess. Croft/Robshaw/Wood was awful in the tight, tis true. Haskell/Robshaw/Vunipola are much better and quite Bok-esque to me. Wood's weight loss doesn't help him, I'd agree, and I hope he shows more than he has or he won't be of much use at all. Robshaw's pretty big and handy in the tight for an openside though.

    Possibly. I don't think I've noticed it being a difference from set-piece though, and Ford prefers to stick quite near the fringes anyway. Farrell might benefit though.

    True and cause for hope.

    I don't think of Joseph as a playmaker but could be wrong. For me though, a playmaker is a guy with the ability to look at a defensive line and spot where he can put the ball for this team mates to run onto. I don't thin Joseph does that; he creates space for others, but doesn't set out to.

    I would personally like to see a more creative full-back more than a more creative 12.

    Manu would help hugely. Manu and Rokoduguni would allow us to meet the All Blacks head on in the backs. I don't get why no Rokoduguni. I really don't. Ford's defence can be hidden better than they currently do I think, although long term it's bound to come up as a selection issue. If not with Farrell, then with Slade, if not with Slade... Theo Brophy-Clews is meant to be the best thing in LI's academy and is a fly-half, Matt Protheroe signed pro terms with Gloucester straight out of school and is a fly-half, both will be bigger men than Ford (they're both taller now); sooner or later he's going to bump into a fly-half of near equal talent as a playmaker who can actually defend. Protheroe is Welsh and only here on residency mind, but oh well. Like that bothers us.

    It doesn't have to be a bigger pack. More emphasis on a quick back row and, uhm, something, maybe a miracle in the centres, and most of it works quite well. Maybe a playmaking 15. Or maybe it's a big pack and an impassable backline.

    Ultimately I want England to pick an idea and gamble everything on it, at least in the starting XV (nice to have plan B on the bench if you can). You get criticised for having no plan B, but if the choice is a strong plan A and no plan B, or ok plans A and B, the former wins you more imo. And maybe that involves dropping a player we rate very highly because they can't offer what the team needs - but needs must.

    Thanks, always nice to have an audience - trying to keep it regularly updated at the moment so keep popping by.

    Saffycen - Didn't quite follow your gist there - do you think we can't compete with others jackals?
     
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  5. Every Time Ref

    Every Time Ref Senior Member

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    Yeah good blog, one question though Peat - why does your "countdown" go upwards?
     
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  6. TheSaffycen

    TheSaffycen Senior Member

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    @TRF_Peat
    If you're talking about the post I made with the different countries 7 then no I wasn't saying ours couldnt compete. The point I made was more about the idea of not having a jackal or poacher. I was trying to guess where Lancaster had the idea of a back row without one, or if someone else has implemented this with any success. I think if Kvesic/Fraser/someone else I'm bound to forget has potential.
     
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  7. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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  8. Ddanno

    Ddanno Senior Member

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    Yeah but the Express.

    But I can smell his desperation from SE London, so agreed!

    Not happening though. He's gone.
     
  9. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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  10. Ddanno

    Ddanno Senior Member

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    Yeah, that sounds like he thinks he's still got a hope. Crossing my fingers that the AP SGM rumour is correct and he gets drop kicked to an admin job with Ritchie and the Frog mofo.

    Edit: that's a wrestling drop kick, in case anyone wondered.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  11. Patchey

    Patchey Senior Member

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  12. j'nuh

    j'nuh Senior Member

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    See, if England were quickly closing in on the top pack, then the experience argument might hold water. Under the right guidance, you expect an inexperienced team to improve faster than an experienced team, as there comes a point where experience delivers diminishing returns.

    But in reality, England improved fast for the first year, slowly for the second and we started to plateau some time in the third year. We got worse throughout the fourth. This isn't the trend of an inexperienced team on the rise. More experienced teams completely outstripped our progress. Ireland and Australia, in particular, have left us for dirt in the last two years.
     
  13. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    Yeh for some reason just read this as 6N's and assumed it was post WC (on phone)
     
  14. tsof

    tsof Member

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    In all these squad predictions/players to watch type discussions happening everywhere, it's dawned on me that one name has been missing (for understandable reasons) as a future England player...... Step forward Matt Symons.
     
  15. Tigs Man

    Tigs Man Senior Member

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    He's been mentioned a few times.
     
  16. tsof

    tsof Member

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    Ah, my mistake.
     
  17. TRF_Peat

    TRF_Peat Super Moderator

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    Zombie thread is being put to sleep. Locked.
     
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