Discussion in 'International Test Matches' started by Tigs Man, Aug 2, 2018.
TCurry will be openside more than likely the spot available realisticly is 20.
We talking bench cover for shields not curry
If all fully fit this is how we should prioritise in each position.
6. Underhill - Wilson - Dombrandt
7. Curry - Curry - Underhill
8. Billy - Simmonds - Mercer
Then players like Clifford, Willis, Earl over Hughes and Shields. Has nothing to do with their heritage, but the other players are genuinely more exciting to me.
I agree, ain't gonna happen though.
What I really don’t understand is why every wasps fan I’ve spoken to doesn’t really rate shields, my SH mates, don’t really rate shields, I’ve seen him play and he isn’t that good yet....
Once again Jones has a player crush. Jones has constantly picked the wrong back row since taking the job and I find it baffleing that he’s such an idiot. Even in our winning streak our back row was poor. All those wasted caps on Haskell and Robshaw.
Thing about the winning streak was everyone disagreed with his picks then, but it was 'In Eddie we trust', because even though it didn't make sense we were winning. Now that we're not winning consistently people are criticising and rightly in my opinion. However he has always had those baffling picks even from the start. I just hope he's learnt for the AI's and starts people on form and not reputation or favouritism (Hughes/Te'o/Shields). If he picks on form I think we have a decent chance at a good 6N's that we can continue to rebuild on and try to get some consistency before the world cup. However if he goes back to his favourites then we could well see another 4th or 5th finish.
Shields was good for the Hurricanes, no doubt, both as a captain and player. The issue is, his point of difference in the Southern Hemisphere was his grit and dog at the breakdown and in the tackle area. That's great in Super Rugby where IMO there are fewer players of that style, but in the Premiership, pretty much every team has one, so he's just not been as effective. He's still a decent defender, good at the breakdown - particularly offensively, and good in the lineout. But Wilson and Dombrandt look far more impactful at the moment and should be playing ahead of him at 6.
Not sure I agree with your point on Robshaw and Haskell. The caps when both of them were monumental in our white-wash of Australia certainly weren't wasted. I think Eddie has actually brought through our young back row forwards at the right time, we've just been a bit unlucky with injury. Curry and Underhill are both still very young, I'm not sure Wilson's performances warranted a surefire call-up prior to the last 2 years. My one gripe would be that Ben Curry hasn't been involved in any camps, because you'd imagine he'd be a pretty good replacement for his identical twin. Dombrandt is a good prospect but he's still a bit raw, so don't mind him being a post-world cup addition.
I thought Shields was actually quite good in the games against NZ and Aus in autumn. Think he deserves a shot in the squad. He is a doubt for the first game, just read on BBC so interested to see how the back row looks now.
Not sure I think it’s fair to call EJ an idiot. He’s obviously made some questionable decisions but looking at the back row considering Billy, Underhill and Curry all starters at some point this year have all been injured all at different points doesn’t help.
I think the most galling part is his favourites are all blatant SH mercenaries. At the start of his tenure I don't blame him for our back row issues. Robshaw and Haskell were actually in decent form and there weren't many others who were. It's when he started playing locks in the back row constantly that he was truly making idiotic decisions. Our big weakness had been our speed to the breakdown and poor clearout and he made selection choices that exacerbated that weakness rather than reducing it. We hadn't had much of a problem with the mobility of our locks but had been lacking power, he then exacerbated that weakness too. He seems to be trying to build a team based on some ideal in his head and completely ignoring when reality shows it simply won't work.
This was especially galling when you consider his back line didn’t have many ball carriers in it and relied on speed of service at the breakdown to find the space.
Jonathan Joseph has been added to the England squad.
Regarding England's WC squad, I see the situation being as follows (assuming no injuries) :
DEFINITES : M Vunipola, Genge, Moon, George, Hartley, Sinckler, Itoje, Lawes, Underhill, Curry, Wilson, B Vunipola (12)
Youngs, Farrell, Ford, Tuilagi, Slade, May, Daly (7)
+ 1 hooker, 2 THs, 2 scrum halfs.
Leaving 7 places for :
Kruis, Launchbury, Robshaw, Shields, Hughes, Simmonds, T'eo, Devoto, Joseph, Nowell, Ashton, Brown, Cokasinga, Watson
For me those places will likely go to 2 centres, 3 back 3 players, 1 lock and 1 back row.
Next time round for B Curry, Willis, Willis, Dombrandt, Mercer
Btw, I've got 2 questions regarding the selection.
1. If you only pick 2 players who can scrummage on one particular side and they both get injured on the eve of a game, what happens ?
2. Are teams allowed to take more than 31 players to train with the official squad ?
Bit of an adding error, where you say "=24" you're actually only at 23. Also you make the assumption that he will take 3 SH's, which whilst standard, would actually go against what Eddie has done to date. I also think that in Eddie's head, that definites list is closer to ~26/27 than 18.
I'd imagine EJ will go with 6 props and 2 scrum halves. I'd have thought that EJ's squad at the moment looks like:
1. Vunipola, Genge, Moon
2. Hartley, George, LCD
3. Sinckler, Cole, Williams
4. Itoje, Launchbury
5. Kruis, Lawes
7. Curry, Underhill
8. Vunipola, Hughes
9. Youngs, Robson
10. Farrell, Ford
12. Te'o, Tuilagi
13. Slade, Joseph
14. Watson, Nowell
15. Daly, Brown
I think the only question marks in there are in the back three, depending on how much faith EJ has in Watson's ability to play 15. If he sees him as a viable option then Brown will drop out for Ashton or Cokonasiga.
Agree 100% on that team. IMO brown has to go, he is solid experienced player to play 80 min against the tier 2 nations keeping daly fresh, same as hughes should be starting vs tier 2 nations, with short turn arounds between games we need solid experienced players that would usually be on the bench or squad players for the games with short turnarounds.
He doesnt always but he should take 3 SHs, can we only take 31 players or is that just what we normally do?
Can only take 31. The general formula is 5 props, 3 hookers, 4 locks, 5 back rowers, 3 scrum halves, 2 fly haves, 4 centres and 5 back three players. However EJ's always preferred only having 2 9s in a squad so I'd be surprised if he didn't drop a 9 for a prop. Given that he's also never really been keen on giving LCD any real experience I'm also half expecting him to only take 2 hookers in favour of taking an extra back three player.
Browns non inclusion in Wales squad virtually confirms hes played his last game for England. Ashton and Nowell were going to cover for Daley against Ireland and now only Nowell is the cover against Wales. With Watson also to come back into contention Browns a goner . If he was still in EJ s thoughts he would be on the bench this saturday.
Totally get your point and maybe your right but the other option is brown is being left out because we know what he does and does well, we know he wont be a first teamer so hes been left out to give others experience but could deffinatly do a job vs the tier 2s to rest players. But then spose ashton is a FB as is watson and bith good enough fir them games so who knows.
About Brad Shields. . . .As a Highlanders fan, I remember the 2015 Super Rugby final vs Hurricanes. I just arrived in Wellington on game day and found out Hurricanes flanker Ardie Savea had got injured and that Brad Shields would be taking his place for the match. The excitement and relief that Ardie was not playing and that just average Brad Shields was instead.
Separate names with a comma.