England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'm expecting:
4. Itoje
5. Kruis, Lawes
6. Wilson, Shields
7. Curry, Underhill
8. Vunipola, Hughes
with EJ seeing Shields and Hughes as emergency lock cover.

I'd go for:
4. Itoje, Launch
5. Kruis, Lawes
6. Wilson
7. Curry, Underhill
8. Vunipola
My 5th back row spot is between Simmonds and Shields. If Simmonds shows that he's back to his standard in the play-offs and warm-ups then he's going as 2nd choice 8 and Underhill will cover 6 should Wilson go down. If not then I'd take Shields as 2nd choice 6 with Wilson covering 8 is Binny goes down.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I feel Underhill is quite clearly ahead of Simmonds in the pecking order no? Obviously I prefer him, because Bath bias, but I mean Eddie's selection decisions point to it quite clearly I'd say. Of course EJ isn't above a very sudden and decisive volte-face, so who knows.

I'd guess so too, but Simmonds was heavily involved when fit and if Curry is first choice EJ might value Simmonds versatility.

I think it will almost definitely be Underhill but just wanted to give a nod to Simmonds as he's still in with a shot and noone really knows how Eddies head works

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If Simmonds is fit, he goes. Won't be a starter in big games, but can up the pace from the bench (which we desperately need) and be emergency cover for all positions / start some group games. Taking Shields ahead of him would be madness.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Eurgh I'd forgotten shields exists, he's one of Eddies Golden Boys so he'll definitely go

Hopefully Simmonds plays a blinder in the playoffs and forces his way in, Shields has had a distinctly forgettable season so shouldn't have raised his stock.

 

[Which Tyler]

It'll be
BVunipola Curry Robshaw Shields Hughes

 

[Scotty]

Shields can play lock aswell as back row so EJ will take him for that reason and he's a favourite of his. Big Simmonds fan, used right he can be epic, but is he up to full speed? Or full fitness? Having only played off the bench since his injury in the early rounds of the season.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

It'll be
BVunipola Curry Robshaw Shields Hughes

Eddie can be mental but he does seem to like Wilson; he won't take Robshaw and Shields over him at 6.

 

[BPM]

[QUOTE="Old Hooker, post: 944883, member: 73144"]If Simmonds is fit, he goes. Won't be a starter in big games, but can up the pace from the bench (which we desperately need) and be emergency cover for all positions / start some group games. Taking Shields ahead of him would be madness.[/QUOTE]

Based upon what? I'd be more than happy to see him go ahead of Shields or Hughes, but there's nothing to convince me that Eddie sees it that way. Simmonds only really got his chance when Billy and Hughes were both unavailable.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It'll be
BVunipola Curry Robshaw Shields Hughes

I was about to berate you for even saying that in jest.

And then I took a step back.

Robshaw may not make the plane, but I'll bet he's a deal further up Jones thoughts than we've assumed for the simple reason of experience.

RWCs aren't won by inexperienced teams and history suggests that's particularly true in the back row. For example the Holy Trinity and the NZ 15 fairly Holy Trinity were all highly capped 30 somethings.

Flanker is one position where craft, guile and nous really counts. Some of the younger guns are highly skilled, powerful athletes, but still wet behind the ears internationally. Shields and Wilson who are older are still green at test level. Only the injury prone Binny can boast a reasonable number of caps. Robshaw's been through the mill, he was a poor captain but a good lieutenant who always gave his all and he'll have learnt from having been around the block a few times. For all our other attributes we have a clear leadership vacuum, a few older heads around Fazlet may have helped avoid the Scotland capitulation for instance?

Experience isn't the be all and all, but nor are great engines and basketball off loads. As ever it's a balance.

Jones knows precisely what Robshaw will give if he brings him in, he hasn't known that of the others who he's belatedly been looking at. And the more I think about it the same goes for Brown.

 

[Which Tyler]

I was about to berate you for even saying that in jest.

And then I took a step back.

TBH, I'd have 3 of the 5, and wouldn't be surprised to see 4 of them (+Wilson) on the plane.
I'd be happy enough with Wilson, Curry, Vunipola as our starters, with Underhill and Robshaw also going. Yes, it'd be great if Simonds or Mercer could push Robshaw off the list; but Eddie has seen something about Zarch that he doesn't like, and Sam hasn't enough game time this season - or at least, not enough credit in the bank to make up for the lack of time on the pitch.

 

[BPM]

Sam Simmonds is a fantastic player, but the Exeter system he shone in was built to play to his strengths with two heavy carrying counterparts in Armand and Ewers. We don't have that with England, so as much as I like him, I think it requires too much of a compromise elsewhere in the pack to make it work.

It's also way too early to say whether he's the player he was pre-injury. A massive part of his game was his explosive acceleration and as much as I'm hoping he hasn't lost that, I think it will take him a while to get back to where he was, which is time he doesn't really have.

I'd go for Wilson, Curry and Billy starting with Underhill on the bench and Robshaw as the 5th back rower.

 

[Scotty]

Sam Simmonds is a fantastic player, but the Exeter system he shone in was built to play to his strengths with two heavy carrying counterparts in Armand and Ewers. We don't have that with England, so as much as I like him, I think it requires too much of a compromise elsewhere in the pack to make it work.

It's also way too early to say whether he's the player he was pre-injury. A massive part of his game was his explosive acceleration and as much as I'm hoping he hasn't lost that, I think it will take him a while to get back to where he was, which is time he doesn't really have.

I'd go for Wilson, Curry and Billy starting with Underhill on the bench and Robshaw as the 5th back rower.

Although Simmonds has always been thought of as an 8, couldnt he be a great 6 for England(post WC). High workrate and strong carrying but also his pace. Plus hed have Billy Mako and sinks as heavy hitters.

But he cant just be used just as a heavy hitter into traffic which is why i havnt thought he should be englands first choice. He is the ideal player for the 20 shirt.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Sam Simmonds is a fantastic player, but the Exeter system he shone in was built to play to his strengths with two heavy carrying counterparts in Armand and Ewers. We don't have that with England, so as much as I like him, I think it requires too much of a compromise elsewhere in the pack to make it work.

It's also way too early to say whether he's the player he was pre-injury. A massive part of his game was his explosive acceleration and as much as I'm hoping he hasn't lost that, I think it will take him a while to get back to where he was, which is time he doesn't really have.

I'd go for Wilson, Curry and Billy starting with Underhill on the bench and Robshaw as the 5th back rower.

I agree with your what you're saying as a whole but... don't we? Vunipola's a better carrier than Ewers and Wilson is a better carrier than Armand. Plus Mako and Sinckler put Moon/Hepburn and Williams/Francis to shame. If Simmonds was to play, then there wouldn't at all be a lack of carriers in our pack to make up for him.

Whether he'll actually be a good enough player post-injury to warrant selection is the question I have.

 

[BPM]

Although Simmonds has always been thought of as an 8, couldnt he be a great 6 for England(post WC). High workrate and strong carrying but also his pace. Plus hed have Billy Mako and sinks as heavy hitters.

But he cant just be used just as a heavy hitter into traffic which is why i havnt thought he should be englands first choice. He is the ideal player for the 20 shirt.

I agree he's a strong option for the 20 shirt, but he's not a 6 in any regular definition.

Most blindside flankers are considerably bigger than opensides and used as 3rd jumpers in the lineout. That description doesn't fit Simmonds for me. He's an 8 for Exeter, a 7 for anyone else.

 

[BPM]

I agree with your what you're saying as a whole but... don't we? Vunipola's a better carrier than Ewers and Wilson is a better carrier than Armand. Plus Mako and Sinckler put Moon/Hepburn and Williams/Francis to shame. If Simmonds was to play, then there wouldn't at all be a lack of carriers in our pack to make up for him.

Whether he'll actually be a good enough player post-injury to warrant selection is the question I have.

It's more a question of how those carriers are actually used. Chiefs have it down to a fine art (Kvesic has taken on the Simmonds role) but that's based upon playing together day in day out. It's not quite the same with England.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Post RWC, we'll have Dombrandt, Willis and Hill all starting to push hard for places. Maybe Earl and B Curry too.

No question that the talent's there. The competition can only raise standards, but the tough bit for Jones or whoever may be selecting the first choices and sticking with them.

 

[Scotty]

I agree he's a strong option for the 20 shirt, but he's not a 6 in any regular definition.

Most blindside flankers are considerably bigger than opensides and used as 3rd jumpers in the lineout. That description doesn't fit Simmonds for me. He's an 8 for Exeter, a 7 for anyone else.

I get that hes not the regular definition as being the lineout option but hes a strong carrier like an 8, pace like a 7 but a damn good workrate in defence.

I just like the idea of having a battering ram with billy and fast back rowers, simmonds is exceptionally fast especially off the mark. Curry is quick too tbh

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm sure Baxter will be looked at as a potential England coach purely on the basis that he plays a 7 at 8, a 6 at 7 and someone who should be an 8 at 6.

Prime England material there.

 

[Which Tyler]

I'm sure Baxter will be looked at as a potential England coach purely on the basis that he plays a 7 at 8, a 6 at 7 and someone who should be an 8 at 6.

Prime England material there.

Nah, England material is 3 #8s (Jack Rowell) or 3 7s (SCW, AR).
Baxter plays a balanced back row, just wearing the wrong shirts

 

[TRF_Olyy]

TRP saying Cipriani will be in the Barbarians side vs England