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England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

ragerancher said:
Shadey Sladey. I'd go for Marchant just because Slade has a history of bottling it big time every time he puts on an England shirt.
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I have to agree. Slade has been average at best in an England shirt and often downright poor. I think it's fair to say he only kept his shirt over the summer due to a lack of fit competition.

I'm a big fan of Marchant's but as I've said before, I think it's a year too soon for him. I'm probably most curious to see how Lozowski develops as a 13. He offers the same kind of versatility as Slade, but in comparison he's always looked good whenever he's played for England.
 
To be fair to Slade, he looked good for England against Argentina last summer. This season he played outside of Farrell, who manages to use up all the space for players outside him as a rule. Even JJ has looked poor in attack for England recently. Combine that with the fact that Farrell and Slade are probably a poor combination at centre anyway, even if Farrell was a good centre, as both are play-makers. What we are really missing is a decent 12.
 
I agree we need a better 12, but we don't have one and there isn't an obvious option on the horizon. Devoto may be an option if he can stay fit and build some form, but he's an unknown quantity at test level.

As I recall, Slade has one lovely moment in the first test in Argentina, but he was shocking in the second test. He had numerous knock ons, made a couple of forward passes and missed a number of tackles. In two games he perfectly illustrated why he's not a starter for England - the odd moment of brilliance isn't enough to compensate for screwing up on the basics (a lot).

He's nowhere near as inconsistent for Exeter, but as with plenty of players before him, he doesn't seem to be able to perform at test level.
 
I would suggest Trinder if he continues the form he had at the end of last season, but then Tigs will just remind me he plays for Gloucester and so is not eligible.
 
Such a wase that Slade has never been given a proper run at 12 - he has all the attributes for it; and would be a step up on Farrell in most measures of quality at IC. But he's been given 1-2 chances, and botched them.
 
To be honest, as long as people are fit, I would put money on our starting centre partnership being either Farrell and Tuilagi/JJ. I reckon Eddie has his mind made up on that front. Everyone is is just place holding.
 
Could be last man standing for WC
centres
Devoto
Slade
Francis
Burrell
Mani
12t
Trinder
Daley
Jj
Merchant
Teo
Have i missed any in with a shout
Farrell goes as a 10 for me
 
NDC89 said:
To be honest, as long as people are fit, I would put money on our starting centre partnership being either Farrell and Tuilagi/JJ. I reckon Eddie has his mind made up on that front. Everyone is is just place holding.
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Just dunno on the whole midfield question.

JJ's injury was in April and he's not expected to be playing again this side of Xmas and even pre injury, perhaps because of the game plan, he was a shadow of the attacking figure he once was. And if he needs to understand how difficult it is to come back from injury he only has to look at Manu, who hasn't got near hitting the heights he once did. They may be Eddie's hypothetical first choices but I wouldn't be putting any of my hard earned on either of them being fully fit and firing at any given point. Slade, Daly and Marchant give choices.

Would love to see a Devoto figure come through at 12, but given Faz seems to be undroppable that would mean him moving to 10. My guess is that Faz will stay at 12, but I think Ford - Faz may have run its natural course, so my guess is that Cips, providing he can stay out of custody, will be inside him.
 
Old Hooker said:
Just dunno on the whole midfield question.

JJ's injury was in April and he's not expected to be playing again this side of Xmas and even pre injury, perhaps because of the game plan, he was a shadow of the attacking figure he once was. And if he needs to understand how difficult it is to come back from injury he only has to look at Manu, who hasn't got near hitting the heights he once did. They may be Eddie's hypothetical first choices but I wouldn't be putting any of my hard earned on either of them being fully fit and firing at any given point. Slade, Daly and Marchant give choices.

Would love to see a Devoto figure come through at 12, but given Faz seems to be undroppable that would mean him moving to 10. My guess is that Faz will stay at 12, but I think Ford - Faz may have run its natural course, so my guess is that Cips, providing he can stay out of custody, will be inside him.
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Interesting phrasing there, but I agree.

With Ford quite clearly out of form, I'd love to think Cipriani has a chance of getting a run in the 10 shirt, but since Farrell is considered undroppable, it pretty much guarantees he'll be at 12 which doesn't really help Cipriani or whoever is at 13.

That said, if Devoto can find form, he offers the combination of size and distribution that could really work for us. That probably means Farrell back to 10 mind ...
 
Which gives us a choice of 10. Cips; 12. Farrell or 10. Farrell; 12. Devoto.

Whilst Cips > Devoto; I'd rather go with the latter
With Faz at IC, I don't see Cips managing any better than Ford - and probably worse; whilst he's also making his OC work twice as hard to get anything done.
At least putting Faz at 10 means we're only suffering froma lack of vision / imagination in the backline; rather than setting up the entire midfield for failure.
 
Yeah - that's what I meant when I said having Farrell at 12 doesn't do the 10 or the 13 any real favours.

Pinning a lot of hope on Devoto after one game back though ...
 
BPM said:
Yeah - that's what I meant when I said having Farrell at 12 doesn't do the 10 or the 13 any real favours.

Pinning a lot of hope on Devoto after one game back though ...
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None of the centres on current form are shouting pick me
 
No idea why anyone would suggest dropping Farrell or that he is a liability at 12!? The energy, organisation and leadership he brings to the team are miles above anything offered by other players. He is also a world class kicker and has played consistently well in almost every single international opportunity he has had.

Everyone wants to see ball-carrying players at centre all the time, but unless you have structure and organisation you will fall apart over the course of 80 mins - see Fiji, Samoa, Tonga. Some teams, like the All Blacks, are lucky enough to have both; dynamic carriers with world class skills, organisation and tactical rugby knowledge. Even then, a guy like Ryan Crotty often starts and is primarily picked for his work-rate, decision making and defensive organisation, rather than his physical ability as a ball carrier. Admittedly, Farrell at 12 requires a different kind of player at 13 for balance, which means unfortunately Loz (who's form has been excellent) and Slade (similarly great domestically but a gigantic bottle job internationally) both miss out. I would expect one of Tuilagi, Teo or possibly Marchant to settle into the 13 shirt by the end of the 6 nations.

Cipriani also has to be given a chance to continue his run. He was very good against Northampton whereas Ford was poor against Chiefs. I think the continued emergence of Marcus Smith provides enough confidence that we can leave Farrell at 12 and have Smith as back-up 10 in the event Cipriani gets injured or (more likely) assaults the Prime Minister on a night out.

I see the 1st choice Midfield looking like:

10. Cips
12. Farrell
13. Tuilagi (fit and firing)

2nd:

10. Smith
Playmaker: Loz/Slade
Line-breaker: Te'o/Joseph

In the event Farrell goes down, I feel like there is enough flexibility in the rest of the options to provide a balanced midfield even if it means swapping the "Playmaker" type to 13 e.g. 12. Te'o, 13. Slade.
 
I think you'll find that there is a fairly strong feeling among a lot of England fans that Farrell is not quite as 'world class' as the media likes to suggest.

As a 10 he lacks instinctive creativity and has very little flair, but is undoubtedly very strong at the basics - in essence very solid but not at all spectacular. I can live with that to a degree and would probably prefer that to a mercurial type of player with flashes of brilliance and howlers in equally measure. However, in his last few games at 10 for England, he hasn't managed the game in the way I would expect and our attack has suffered. He doesn't seem to play like he does for Saracens which could be the England system but it shouldn't stop him being able to dictate the attack from 10.

As a 12, he's improved a lot, but he still offers very little running threat which makes us very predictable and kills a lot of opportunity in the 13 channel. It's not just him, but I don't think it's a coincidence that no one has really shone working with him at outside centre. We just repetitively use these wrap moves between Ford and Farrell that are so obvious and rarely well-executed ...

His defence is also massively overrated. He goes for big hits and is often too high and often misses which leaves dog legs for good teams to exploit. That's not good organisation IMO.

I'm not suggesting we drop him. I think having him at 12 is the best of a range of sub-optimal options, but let's not pretend he's infallible.
 
Old Hooker said:
Bugger it, just bring back 36. He's got all the attributes.

On paper.
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I actually nearly used him as my example. If Billy could play consistently at 80% of his potential he would be up there as the best 12 in the world.

His nickname suggests he's more than the sum of his parts, I only wish that was the case .
 

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