England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

[Ragey Erasmus]

I just hope we don't fall into the trap we have in the past of not trusting someone because they don't have experience therefore they get no experience so aren't trusted because they don't have experience. I think this cycle under Jones has shown how important it is to give young players game time if they are performing, none of this "wait your turn" ********. Itoje, Underhill, Curry etc are all performing at a higher level at a young age than a lot of their predecessors were at supposedly their prime age. I wish England would make greater use of the Saxons too, get some of the prospects playing at semi-international level and having a look at them outside their club environment.

Players like Dombrandt may turn out to be a complete flop but if we don't even try them then we will never know. Also I don't mean try as in chop and change an entire team, throw them against tough opposition with minimal time together, blame them all for the loss and never look at them ever again.

 

[Nudger]

It's time England players are centrally contracted so their wages dont count in the salary cap?
Its Ridiculous that clubs have to move players on because they play for England

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

What are you people smoking, Hughes and now Goode!!!

What about a FB with pace? Or an 8 who actually knows how to ruck?

We've had one of those....

.......which has proven that pace is meaningless without an inherent understanding of the position. First and foremost I want a full back who's a full back. Remain disappointed that Woodward didn't get a look in.

 

[Jashay]

Given Eddie's love of trying current squad players in different positions, is it possible we'll see Nowell at FB? All things considered he did well playing there for Exeter this year (since Jan, I think?), but I guess he's not going to get a lot of game time in the position now the Chiefs have signed Hogg.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Over half of his players used have been debutants. Is that high or quite normal?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Over half of his players used have been debutants. Is that high or quite normal?

Don't know, but feels pretty high to me.

Quite ironic when he gets pelters for sticking with the old guard of Care, Haskell, Robshaw etc for too long.

 

[Reiser99]

Don't know, but feels pretty high to me.

Quite ironic when he gets pelters for sticking with the old guard of Care, Haskell, Robshaw etc for too long.

See this is where the stat is a bit misleading on it's own. What I'd like to know is how many of those players that were uncapped went on to be regulars within the team or some like Moon for example who were capped whilst others were injured. Also I'd love a comparison of number of new caps in first 2 years, and then number of new caps in last 2 years as for me it felt like he started capping when he finally realised that the old guard wouldn't be good enough in 2019.

 

[MarkyH]

Genge, Mako
George, LCD
Sinckler, Williams
Itoje, Kruis, Launcbury, Isiekwe
Curry, Curry, Underhill, Ludlam
Billy, Dombrant, Mercer

Spencer, Randall
Ford, Farrell
James, Marchant, Tuilagi, Slade, JJ
May, Nowell, Coka
Watson, Daly

31 man 6N squad from me. Real importance we bring in a proper 12, and a new 9 (or two). Shame to drop Laws but want to get at least one younger lock in. Would like to bring a younger tighthead in too, but that can be done gradually.

Evolution over the next few years, we did well despite the final. We just need to be stronger in our weaker positions....

It's been mentioned already, but would love to see the return of the Saxons, especially end of year tours. Players like Ewels, Simmonds, Hill, Earl, Smith, Thorley etc etc need to be around the setup.

 

[Scotty]

Genge, Mako
George, LCD
Sinckler, Williams
Itoje, Kruis, Launcbury, Isiekwe
Curry, Curry, Underhill, Ludlam
Billy, Dombrant, Mercer

Spencer, Randall
Ford, Farrell
James, Marchant, Tuilagi, Slade, JJ
May, Nowell, Coka
Watson, Daly

31 man 6N squad from me. Real importance we bring in a proper 12, and a new 9 (or two). Shame to drop Laws but want to get at least one younger lock in. Would like to bring a younger tighthead in too, but that can be done gradually.

Evolution over the next few years, we did well despite the final. We just need to be stronger in our weaker positions....

It's been mentioned already, but would love to see the return of the Saxons, especially end of year tours. Players like Ewels, Simmonds, Hill, Earl, Smith, Thorley etc etc need to be around the setup.

Like your team, im bias and would have simmonds in there but thats me. Pure bias.

But i dont understand James. Luke or sam? I dont think either out their hand up really, good players no doubt but u dont think internationals.

Id prop have JWillis(if fit) over Ben. We have tom who is top class all round very good player. Willis a pure jackler who is also a good carrier. If we can have loads of different threats at 7.

 

[Jashay]

Genge, Mako
George, LCD
Sinckler, Williams
Itoje, Kruis, Launcbury, Isiekwe
Curry, Curry, Underhill, Ludlam
Billy, Dombrant, Mercer

Spencer, Randall
Ford, Farrell
James, Marchant, Tuilagi, Slade, JJ
May, Nowell, Coka
Watson, Daly

31 man 6N squad from me. Real importance we bring in a proper 12, and a new 9 (or two). Shame to drop Laws but want to get at least one younger lock in. Would like to bring a younger tighthead in too, but that can be done gradually.

Evolution over the next few years, we did well despite the final. We just need to be stronger in our weaker positions....

It's been mentioned already, but would love to see the return of the Saxons, especially end of year tours. Players like Ewels, Simmonds, Hill, Earl, Smith, Thorley etc etc need to be around the setup.

I think there's room in there for a second sub for each of the front row; the 6N squad is usually 35 man. Obano, Singleton, and whoever looks good at THP (Hill? Heyes?). Would like to see Simmonds and Willis get a spot in the pack, too.

I agree that we need some options at 12; not sure picking seven outside centres is the way! (Even if Nowell and Daly don't get to play there often, I still think of them as 13s). I've got absolutely no idea who is coming through at 12, though.

 

[Scotty]

Devoto is injured atm but what about him for a shot? When fit he was great for us and decent csrrier good hands. And i dont think too old. If not i dont mind we will keep him at chiefs

 

[MarkyH]

Like your team, im bias and would have simmonds in there but thats me. Pure bias.

But i dont understand James. Luke or sam? I dont think either out their hand up really, good players no doubt but u dont think internationals.

Id prop have JWillis(if fit) over Ben. We have tom who is top class all round very good player. Willis a pure jackler who is also a good carrier. If we can have loads of different threats at 7.

Luke James. All i'm trying to do is find a spot for a young English 12 that we can at least bring into the EPS and learn the ropes a bit more. We are crying out for a rounded 12, is only 20 and has nearly 50 first team appearances for Sale.

Massive fan of Simmonds so don't worry about bias andJ Willis. Hopefully they are both in a position to show long term recovery from their injuries in the last year. However, Dombrant is a bruising carrier at 6 and 8 so would like someone to put some pressure on Billy. I could pick 10 back row forwards to be in the EPS (Earl & Hill not mentioned) which is why I suggest bringing back the Saxons during the 6N and end of year tests.

 

[MarkyH]

Devoto is injured atm but what about him for a shot? When fit he was great for us and decent csrrier good hands. And i dont think too old. If not i dont mind we will keep him at chiefs

Devoto looks like he has it all, but never seems to be playing week in week out.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

The main issue with English 12s is that we have plenty of guys who are perfectly good at club level (Devoto, Tompkins, Williams, James etc.) but no one really looks like they'd be anything more than a stand-in at international level before someone better comes along. The only young centre I've seen with that potential is Lawrence, but he prefers 13. It'll be very interesting to see how he develops.

 

[Scotty]

The main issue with English 12s is that we have plenty of guys who are perfectly good at club level (Devoto, Tompkins, Williams, James etc.) but no one really looks like they'd be anything more than a stand-in at international level before someone better comes along. The only young centre I've seen with that potential is Lawrence, but he prefers 13. It'll be very interesting to see how he develops.

Tbf Tompkins has been stuck behind barrett but has looked very good so i am keen to see how he progresses if he stays first choice but i fear barrett will come back and push him to just a bench option.

 

[Scotty]

Luke James. All i'm trying to do is find a spot for a young English 12 that we can at least bring into the EPS and learn the ropes a bit more. We are crying out for a rounded 12, is only 20 and has nearly 50 first team appearances for Sale.

Massive fan of Simmonds so don't worry about bias andJ Willis. Hopefully they are both in a position to show long term recovery from their injuries in the last year. However, Dombrant is a bruising carrier at 6 and 8 so would like someone to put some pressure on Billy. I could pick 10 back row forwards to be in the EPS (Earl & Hill not mentioned) which is why I suggest bringing back the Saxons during the 6N and end of year tests.

Tbh Dombrandt will prob replace wilson but to start at 6 if billy is at 8 will have to up his workrate.

Mercer and Simmonds both love to carry and are good in defence and excell at both. Simmonds has 0 missed tackles this season from 34 attempts playing 160min in 2 games. Stats dont tell it all but thats a good one.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

See this is where the stat is a bit misleading on it's own. What I'd like to know is how many of those players that were uncapped went on to be regulars within the team or some like Moon for example who were capped whilst others were injured. Also I'd love a comparison of number of new caps in first 2 years, and then number of new caps in last 2 years as for me it felt like he started capping when he finally realised that the old guard wouldn't be good enough in 2019.

His first debutant was Clifford in the 16 6N, Eng player no 1374.

First in 17 was Williams 1386

First in 18 was Hepburn 1398

6 in 19 starting with Robson 1405.

23 of the players debuting under Jones did not make the RWC squad. 24 if you include Spencer.

 

[MarkyH]

1374 Jack Clifford (flanker) 2016-02-06 v Scotland at Murrayfield
1375 Paul Hill (prop) 2016-02-14 v Italy at Rome
1376 Maro Itoje (flanker) 2016-02-14 v Italy at Rome
1377 Elliot Daly (centre) 2016-02-27 v Ireland at Twickenham
1378 Teimana Harrison flanker 2016-05-29 v Wales at Twickenham
1379 Ollie Devoto (fly-half) 2016-05-29 v Wales at Twickenham
1380 Ellis Genge (prop) 2016-05-29 v Wales at Twickenham
1381 Tommy Taylor (hooker) 2016-05-29 v Wales at Twickenham
1382 Kyle Sinckler (prop) 2016-11-12 v South Africa at Twickenham
1383 Nathan Hughes (flanker) 2016-11-12 v South Africa at Twickenham
1384 Ben Te'o (centre) 2016-11-12 v South Africa at Twickenham
1385 Charlie Ewels (lock) 2016-11-19 v Fiji at Twickenham
1386 Harry Williams prop 2017-06-10 v Argentina at San Jaun
1387 Mark Wilson flanker 2017-06-10 v Argentina at San Juan
1388 Tom Curry flanker 2017-06-10 v Argentina at San Juan
1389 Alex Lozowski centre 2017-06-10 v Argentina at San Juan
1390 Denny Solomona (winger) 2017-06-10 v Argentina at San Juan
1391 Piers Francis (centre) 2017-06-10 v Argentina at San Juan
1392 Don Armand (flanker) 2017-06-10 v Argentina at San Juan
1393 Jack Maunder (scrum-half) 2017-06-10 v Argentina at San Juan
1394 Will Collier (prop) 2017-06-10 v Argentina at San Juan
1395 Nick Isiekwe (lock) 2017-06-10 v Argentina at San Juan
1396 Sam Underhill flanker 2017-06-17 v Argentina at Santa Fè
1397 Sam Simmonds (flanker) 2017-11-11 v Argentina at Twickenham
1398 Alec Hepburn (prop) 2018-04-02 v Italy at Rome
1399 Brad Shields (lock) 2018-06-09 v South Africa at Johannesburg
1400 Ben Spencer (scrum half) 2018-06-09 v South Africa at Johannesburg
1401 Ben Moon (prop) 2018-11-03 v South Africa at Twickenham
1402 Zach Mercer (no. 8) 2018-11-03 v South Africa at Twickenham
1403 Joe Cokanasiga wing 2018-11-17 v Japan at Twickenham
1404 Ted Hill (flanker) 2018-11-17 v Japan at Twickenham
1405 Dan Robson (scrumhalf) 2019-02-10 v France at Twickenham
1406 Willi Heinz scrumhalf 2019-08-11 v Wales at Twickenham
1407 Lewis Ludlam flanker 2019-08-11 v Wales at Twickenham
1408 Jack Singleton (hooker) 2019-08-11 v Wales at Twickenham
1409 Joe Marchant (centre) 2019-08-11 v Wales at Twickenham
1410 Ruaridh McConnochie wing 2019-09-06 v Italy at Newcastle-upon-Tyne

 

[MarkyH]

Someone can have a play with that. Who's a regular? Who's a squad/first choice replacement player? Some are young, with potential. Others will never be good enough. I can't be arsed to do that.