England Rugby 2018/19 Thread

[Vieux Talonneur]

Given the rumours that surrounded Ford snr's departure from Barf, I wonder just how delighted his sons are to see him rock up at Tigers....

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Genge would go to Bristol, surely?
They can afford to buy him out and he's already said he plans to go back there in the future


That said i don't think Leicester will get relegated.

 

[ncurd]

Given the rumours that surrounded Ford snr's departure from Barf, I wonder just how delighted his sons are to see him rock up at Tigers....

Given Ford JR's departure from Bath and his performance post his Dad's sacking, I'd say they were only ever rumors.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Genge would go to Bristol, surely?
They can afford to buy him out and he's already said he plans to go back there in the future


That said i don't think Leicester will get relegated.

Guess cap space.
Rumoured to be offering Anscombe 500K that will not be marquee cap either.


Anyway Ben Youngs could play Nat league 2 and would still get picked for England over Robson.

 

[Which Tyler]

IMO, Leicester won't go down, but for the sake of mental ************...
Genge would need to leave or lose his England place.
Cole would essentially take early retirement from international rugby
Young's would essentially take early retirement from international rugby
Ford would need to leave or lose his England place (were talking post-RWC and 2nd choice FH)
Manu would have a fight on his hands to keep his spot from the championship, but does stand a chance as no-one else can do what he does.
May would have a hell of a fight on his hands to keep his place, as we have several wingers putting their hands up for his place. On the other hand, he's good enough, and what he brings is least dependant on gametime to be effective.

Not many England contenders have been relegated before now, so it's all supposition, but I think any coach would be extremely loath to select a player from the championship. They'll saynall the right noises, but no-one should be confident of keeping their place if relegated

 

[Every Time Ref]

Tigers coach must be on borrowed time now, wonder if Ford SNR is there to stay.

I for one would be shocked, nay ASTONISHED if Mike Ford arrived at a rugby club in an advisory/assistant coach capacity, and shortly afterwards the head coach was fired, with Ford ascending to head coach ...

 

[Scotty]

Seriously what has it come to for the england 1 3 9 10 11 12, (all first or second choice in their respective positions) to be in a relagation battle yet for england we want all these to help us to the world cup final? Faz has his issues has captain but talk about mental issues in the england team.

 

[BPM]

That's a strange way of looking at it ... The 6 you've picked out have all been among Tigers' best performers. But that's just over a third of the team and isn't enough to balance out other squad players putting in consistently poor performances.

There are lots of reasons why Tigers are in the relegation fight, but those 6 aren't the reason for it. If anything I'd say George Ford has earned them a lot more points than they might have had with bits of individual brilliance.

I can't think of many times Tigers have been able to put out a first choice 23. At various stages, they've had a bunch of players away with England (and other test sides) and several on the treatment table, including the likes of Veainu who has been out for pretty much the entire season. Add in the business with O'Connor and Murphy's inexperience as a head coach and it's no great surprise they've struggled.

Anyway - your logic is flawed, Scarlets have been crap this season, yet Wales have just won a Grand Slam with a similar core of Scarlets players. With a different coach and another 17 better players in the squad, England did a fair bit better than Leicester have too. Funny that.

 

[Scotty]

That's a strange way of looking at it ... The 6 you've picked out have all been among Tigers' best performers. But that's just over a third of the team and isn't enough to balance out other squad players putting in consistently poor performances.

There are lots of reasons why Tigers are in the relegation fight, but those 6 aren't the reason for it. If anything I'd say George Ford has earned them a lot more points than they might have had with bits of individual brilliance.

I can't think of many times Tigers have been able to put out a first choice 23. At various stages, they've had a bunch of players away with England (and other test sides) and several on the treatment table, including the likes of Veainu who has been out for pretty much the entire season. Add in the business with O'Connor and Murphy's inexperience as a head coach and it's no great surprise they've struggled.

Anyway - your logic is flawed, Scarlets have been crap this season, yet Wales have just won a Grand Slam with a similar core of Scarlets players. With a different coach and another 17 better players in the squad, England did a fair bit better than Leicester have too. Funny that.

I get your point but i think the mejority is a coaching issue as the players they have are decent, still have the likes of eastmond, tom youngs, holmes, and a few solid prem players that team is not lacking experience. Need to spend money on the coaching set up at keep mike ford. Must be hard for the players to stay positive

 

[BPM]

It reminds me a lot of Quins last season. A squad of good, experienced players performing at nowhere near their best.

I 100% agree that coaching is a large part to do with it.

I don't agree that Tigers' woes have much of an effect on the 6 England players who may be in our World Cup squad.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

After this World Cup we need to sack George Ford off anyhow and look for a more complete player to take over from Farrell. I'm hopping one of the young uns, Grayson, Smith etc can be all the things that Ford and Farrell arnt. There are more than just Grayson and smith I know.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

**** me, if we bin Ford for Smith, who, while very promising, is worse at every aspect of the game (including defence) then EJ needs committing

 

[BPM]

**** me, if we bin Ford for Smith, who, while very promising, is worse at every aspect of the game (including defence) then EJ needs committing

Agreed. Smith is nowhere near Ford and won't be any time soon. He can and does make some surprisingly decent hits though, so I would actually say his defence may be the only thing he's better at.

Grayson looks promising enough, but again I've seen nothing to suggest he'll be knocking on the door immediately after the World Cup.

Max Malins is arguably more talented than Smith or Grayson but I think Sarries see him as more of a 15 which TBH, may be a blessing for England.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I meant we need to invest in someone who might not be better right now but can have 4 years experience by the next World Cup.

They can start as an understudy to Farrell and then slowly take the reigns when they are better.

Would rather have had Cipriani in though.

 

[curtbob7]

Genge would go to Bristol, surely?
They can afford to buy him out and he's already said he plans to go back there in the future


That said i don't think Leicester will get relegated.

Heard he offered to buy himself out of his final year to force a move.

 

[curtbob7]

Genge would go to Bristol, surely?
They can afford to buy him out and he's already said he plans to go back there in the future


That said i don't think Leicester will get relegated.

Heard he offered to buy himself out of his final year to force a move.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I meant we need to invest in someone who might not be better right now but can have 4 years experience by the next World Cup.

They can start as an understudy to Farrell and then slowly take the reigns when they are better.

Would rather have had Cipriani in though.

Ford is 26 with 50 caps, Faz is 27 with 70 caps. Both can easily make 2023 with a shed load of experience under their belts.

You may fall into one camp or the other, but unless a super hybrid of them emerges, they're fine for the foreseeable. If a better option comes along then great, but there's no need to be actively looking for one. Which is more than you can say for the shirts either side of them....

 

[MarkyH]

I like George Ford a lot, I have no complaints with him being our starting fly-half. Him or Farrell or both. I have no affiliation with either players clubs past or present

Smith nowhere near that level yet, but has promise. Same for Grayson.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

If we don't actively look for replacements In key positions at the start of a new World Cup cycle then we arnt nurturing the next generation. I dont mean just bring someone in for the sake of it but we should look for a more rounded 10....and 9...and 12

 

[MarkyH]

For sure! Post WC, no matter how it goes we have to focus on some key positions. Mainly 9 and 12 and improvements everywhere else.