England Saxons to tour South Africa in June

[ratsapprentice]

Hill and Devoto are not ready for test rugby yet.

 

[Raggs]

If those players don't take it as a sign that they need to get better at their craft, then they don't have the right attitude for international rugby anyway.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Hill and Devoto are not ready for test rugby yet.

I'm not suggesting they go straight into the England starting team, but it's not going to help their development if the England Senior Management, instead of putting time and work into them, just keep fast-tracking league converted centres. We all know how that went last time.

 

[ratsapprentice]

How is it directly hampering their development?

Particularly when neither guy is even first choice for their clubs.

 

[Raggs]

I'm not suggesting they go straight into the England starting team, but it's not going to help their development if the England Senior Management, instead of putting time and work into them, just keep fast-tracking league converted centres. We all know how that went last time.

Burgess was a ridiculous choice. Teo is better than Hill and Devoto at this time. They need time at AP and Euro level before England should worry about putting hours into them unless they've shown themselves to be exceptional.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

If he played for Samoa, I don't think anyone would bat an eyelid... conversely

Good point and I imagine Eliota will forget all about the Kiwis with one Samoan parent when he goes on his inevitable twitter rant pre-Teos first cap.

 

[Peat]

I'm not suggesting they go straight into the England starting team, but it's not going to help their development if the England Senior Management, instead of putting time and work into them, just keep fast-tracking league converted centres. We all know how that went last time.

Te'o and Burgess are nothing alike. Te'o has done his hard time learning union; two years of it. He's also just signed his big contract over here - he's very unlikely to swan off.

As for Hill/Devoto and their development - we've got three young English centres in the squad, four if you count Farrell, five if you count Tuilagi being named before being injured. If it doesn't happen for them, not a biggie.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Te'o and Burgess are nothing alike. Te'o has done his hard time learning union; two years of it. He's also just signed his big contract over here - he's very unlikely to swan off.

As for Hill/Devoto and their development - we've got three young English centres in the squad, four if you count Farrell, five if you count Tuilagi being named before being injured. If it doesn't happen for them, not a biggie.

I've not got any sympathy for Devtoto either. He signed to Exeter knowing that had Sam Hill and Slade, so he either doesn't see him self as a 12 or doesn't really care about playing AP rugby every week.

Edit: as another thought, we haven't actually developed any fully rounded decent centres in a decade. There is something strange about that.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I've not got any sympathy for Devtoto either. He signed to Exeter knowing that had Sam Hill and Slade, so he either doesn't see him self as a 12 or doesn't really care about playing AP rugby every week.

Edit: as another thought, we haven't actually developed any fully rounded decent centres in a decade. There is something strange about that.

To be fair I think that's just as much Chiefs' fault as his, to have so many centres (Slade, Hill, Whitten, Devoto, Campagnaro as well as Nowell, Woodburn and Dollman all there to cover). Maybe Devoto thinks that with his versatility (10,12,13,15) he'll get slotted into the side somewhere every week? A bad choice but certainly plausible. And you also can't blame him for wanting to leave Bath with them performing so badly and Eastmond ahead of him at 12. Maybe he just wanted to take the first contract he was offered and for him that was Exeter. Also, what's happened to Eastmond and Barritt? As far as England is concerned they've both disappeared off the face of the earth, which although I'm not a fan of either, is suprising.

And on the point of England not having developed a rounded centre in a decade, I'd say that with time Mallinder could potentially be one.

 

[Which Tyler]

Or, he just thinks that he's good enough to earn a starting shirt?
Wild idea, I know - but I'd certainly back him ahead of Hill or Whitten; and if Slade is going to move to FH instead; then that opens up another centre spot anyway.
As for rounded centres - Devoto could very easily become one; he's got the skills, and the skeletal physique. Of course, so did Twelvetrees; but he steadfastly refused to grow a brain. Equally of course; it remains to be seen if Devoto will actually fulfill his potential.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

That chap at London Irish - Johnny Williams? - has looked exciting this season

 

[Irish boy]

I think he is already better than Devoto

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

To be fair I think that's just as much Chiefs' fault as his, to have so many centres (Slade, Hill, Whitten, Devoto, Campagnaro as well as Nowell, Woodburn and Dollman all there to cover). Maybe Devoto thinks that with his versatility (10,12,13,15) he'll get slotted into the side somewhere every week? A bad choice but certainly plausible. And you also can't blame him for wanting to leave Bath with them performing so badly and Eastmond ahead of him at 12. Maybe he just wanted to take the first contract he was offered and for him that was Exeter. Also, what's happened to Eastmond and Barritt? As far as England is concerned they've both disappeared off the face of the earth, which although I'm not a fan of either, is suprising.

And on the point of England not having developed a rounded centre in a decade, I'd say that with time Mallinder could potentially be one.

Yes, agree on Mallinder. He's got all the physical attributes and is also a ball player. Plenty to learn, but I like what I see.

After Ford and Farrell's experience of being coached by their Dads it will be interesting to see how long he sticks at Saints. Not that I am suggesting Jim has a penchant for any of the medical staff, you understand.

 

[Raggs]

12 is also a bloody hard position to fit into. There's 2 distinct moulds, the bosher and the brain, with many other varieties. Of course, we all want a Nonu, but even he was nowhere near the player he ended up being when he first broke into the ABs.

 

[Maverick1987]

Calling Kvesic foreign because he was born in Germany is, uhm...

very wrong, I guess.

He was born on an army base in Germany . If that counts as foreign then we have really lost the plot ......

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Or, he just thinks that he's good enough to earn a starting shirt?
Wild idea, I know - but I'd certainly back him ahead of Hill or Whitten; and if Slade is going to move to FH instead; then that opens up another centre spot anyway.
As for rounded centres - Devoto could very easily become one; he's got the skills, and the skeletal physique. Of course, so did Twelvetrees; but he steadfastly refused to grow a brain. Equally of course; it remains to be seen if Devoto will actually fulfill his potential.

There's no way Devoto is better than Hill and Whitten (yet?).
Whitten is a bit of a dark horse, for Chiefs. Doesn't grab many headlines or anything but is one of their best backs.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

There's no way Devoto is better than Hill and Whitten (yet?).
Whitten is a bit of a dark horse, for Chiefs. Doesn't grab many headlines or anything but is one of their best backs.

Definitely not better than Whitten yet but it's not too big a stretch to say he's better than Hill. Hill is absolutely the better, stronger ball carrier but Devoto has a better passing and kicking game and I would've thought is faster and although isn't as strong as Hill, is still a big lad and can break through tackles.

 

[Peat]

There seems no reason to me why Devoto couldn't play the 13 role that Slade's filling with one of Whitten and Hill at 12. Course, that only opens up if Slade goes to 10, and I'm not sure that's going to be happening. I'm guessing the idea is he takes over from Steenson sooner rather than later, but Steenson is being awful difficult about it.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

There seems no reason to me why Devoto couldn't play the 13 role that Slade's filling with one of Whitten and Hill at 12. Course, that only opens up if Slade goes to 10, and I'm not sure that's going to be happening. I'm guessing the idea is he takes over from Steenson sooner rather than later, but Steenson is being awful difficult about it.

2 points to make here, 1) Surely it would be better to move Campagnaro, many peoples 13 of the 6 Nations, to 13 instead of keeping him playing in the Chiefs A side, as if we continue to do that he will leave the club. 2) Dropping Steeno would be a pretty harsh call considering he was the Golden Boot, got nominated for Premiership player of the season and was chosen as the 10 for the team of the Premiership season (ahead of Faz). Plus, Slade hasn't consistently played inwards of 13 in years, so making him the Chiefs' standard 10 is quite a risky call.

 

[Peat]

2 points to make here, 1) Surely it would be better to move Campagnaro, many peoples 13 of the 6 Nations, to 13 instead of keeping him playing in the Chiefs A side, as if we continue to do that he will leave the club. 2) Dropping Steeno would be a pretty harsh call considering he was the Golden Boot, got nominated for Premiership player of the season and was chosen as the 10 for the team of the Premiership season (ahead of Faz). Plus, Slade hasn't consistently played inwards of 13 in years, so making him the Chiefs' standard 10 is quite a risky call.

Everything you say is true and I'm not putting money on it, but it seems a possibility to me; I certainly don't know why they brought in Devoto if they weren't thinking of Slade playing more at 10.