England should adopt Australia's style

[melon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

England should eye Aussie rugby: Peacock
By Wayne Heming
AAP



Gutted England captain Jamie Peacock believes it could be time Super League teams adopted the southern hemisphere style of rugby league to compete internationally.

The shattered England skipper, uncertain if he's played his last game for his country, felt officials back home had to take a hard look at how the game is played in Australia and consider adopting that style.

"Super League is more exciting to watch but it doesn't mean international success," said Peacock when asked if England had to change its domestic game.

"Do you want international success and have a different style of football, or do you keep what we've got and keep it more free flowing?

"That's for the people at the top to decide with some input from the players.

"I see Australia had a big (NRL) meeting with a lot of its players involved and I think that is something that needs to be done with Super League."

Playing under Australian referees throughout the World Cup, England never adjusted to the wrestle in the ruck nor the use of dummy and decoy runners out wide.

Time and again players threw their hands in the air, screaming at referees for obstruction penalties because defenders felt impeded by opposition decoy runners.

"It's been tough adapting, it's a different style of play with the ruck and how the 10 metres is policed," said Peacock.

"What's actually thrown at you out wide is different from what we deal with in Super League.

"There's a lot less wrestling and a lot more emphasis on the speed of the play the ball, so the damage is done down the middle.

"But the damage was done out wide here."

What is not different though is catching and passing the ball and numbering up in defence which England did so poorly in Saturday night's semi final loss to New Zealand.

Super League form was left at home and the English were the disappointments of the World Cup after promising so much.

Losing twice to New Zealand, whom they embarrassed 3-0 in a home Test series a year ago, suggests they have a lot of work to do.

Their Australia-born coach, Tony Smith should have prepared them better knowing what they would be up against in the tournament.

The fact lightweights Papua New Guinea stunned them in the opening game was enough warning but they were flogged by Australia in a masterly display by the Kangaroos and comprehensively beaten by the Kiwis in back-to-back games.

England do have some class acts.

Five-eighth Danny McGuire has great hands, reads the game brilliantly, has speed and strength and his try just before half time, and another in the second half, underlined his quality.

Prop James Graham has ball skills that also make him dangerous along with centre Martin Gleeson.

Peacock, 31, was blunt in his assessment of the World Cup effort: "We under performed."[/b]

 

[Gay-Guy]

Does this mean that the NH players don't spend as much time wrestling with the ball carrrier...trying to turtle them?  I thought that slowing the play the ball was FUNDAMENTAL for every tackle.....the defensive line needs every milisecond they can get to reset the line, rest...before moving forward.

Whenever the NZ Warriors struggled winning the tackle we knew it was gonna be one of those games again.  

 

[QLD]

Definetly for emphasis on defense would help, but I havent watched enough SL to know what the problem is.

 

[Javen]

England should just replace everyone except Gleeson and Peacock.

 

[redunderthebed]

Wtf im just waiting for dan's reponse should be classic since he has a pathological hatred for Australia Rugby League. :lol:

 

[St Helens RLFC]

ANNEURISM ALERT!

The problem is mental, not ability, I totally maintain that. And making the league dull and monotomous like the NRL will just make things even worse. I'd be gutted if Saints started playing one up dull rugby like I see every week in the Australian league.

At the end of the day, I'd rather Super League thrive than international rugby.

 

[melon]

Ok Dan, heres the thing.

I think you think the NRL is "dull and monotonous" because of the mere fact we are better defenders...and also because we stuff around at the ruck slowing the ball down. I completely understand this because not only have I witnessed it, there are many players who originally started in the NRL and now play in the ESL who share the same idea because of the the same reason(s).

Overall the NRL has a greater emphasis on defence, with the same emphasis on attack (although we may do the attack part a bit better but that fact seems to be overlooked because the defence does kind of negate that, but thats alright with me...just as long as people see this)

Who can blame us though?! Our players train 5 days per week, most of the time between 6 and 8 hours per day. That leaves more time for defence and wrestling work for the ruck. Players up there in the ESL finish just after lunch. That leaves less time for skills such as defence which seems to make the games more "dull and monotonous".

I'm not saying the Super League competition is rubbish, I actually enjoy watching it, however I enjoying watching the NRL more because I like to be able to appreciate the fact that I know they are superior players. They are a more complete package than their northern hemisphere counterparts. Not only are they professional attackers, they are also professional defenders.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Don't be fooled about Super League training hours - we're in full time too. I know this because I used to serve the players on their way home from work when I used to work in the mobile phone trade.

I hate the PTB full stop in RL at the moment, the actual "play" of it is scruffy, and the amount of jiggery pokery that goes on is incredible. Only our referees do anything about it though, Hayne and Archer let it go on all sorts. It slows us down. One of the key things about Super League is a quick PTB - it's why Saints have been the best in the league for a decade because we had Cunningham at hooker destroying people, making 10 - 20 yards every time or getting a penalty.

Way too much slowing down goes on.

 

[melon]

Mmm I agree.

What I want to point out to a lot of people also is that whilst Jamie Peacock and co say the ESL need to adopt Australia's style of play to compete in internationals, it won't necessarily be a good thing to the domestic competition at all. It would probably have a negative impact if anything. I say this because each competition is unique for both good and bad reasons.
That's why I watch both. They are different competitions. If they become duplicates then I just wouldn't bother with the ESL.

But in saying that, having better defence doesn't mean the game has to be any slower. Just as long as the play the ball issue is sorted out and there's not so much f***ing around as there is in the NRL. Too much bullshit occurs on the ground over here.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Our defence is normally alright. Leeds and Saints, particularly Saints, are well known for having exceptional goal line defence. The vast majority of the squad comes from those two teams. That's why I found our shambolic capers so bizarre and hard to understand. I blame a poor coach and a lot of tiredness starting to creep in.

 

[melon]

Hmmm we need come conflict.

Dan, YOU SUCK BALLS.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

NRL - YOU ARE FIVE DRIVES AND A KICK!

 

[melon]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Nov 18 2008, 10:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

NRL - YOU ARE FIVE DRIVES AND A KICK![/b]

Except for Darren Lockyer.

What amazes me is opposition players time and time again neglect to realise that if they rush up on Lockyer he will step them and when he decides to get rid of the ball to a backline who is expecting such a play to be made they more often than not score a try that is always included in the "try of the year" reel.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

It's easier said than done to stop Lockyer. He is genuine world class, probably the best player I've ever seen in the flesh. Andrew Johns used to get all the hype, but he wasn't fit to lace Lockyer's boots, IMO. I'll never forget the 2004 tri nations final. We got hammered and it was probably the second best individual display of rugby league I've ever seen, maybe even THE best.

Quality player.

 

[Gay-Guy]

Are there any SL refs in this World Cup comp at all????? Any????? Perhaps this comp would be different if the refs were from the SL and reffing it like a SL game?

Which makes me think....who reffed that 3N final where NZ won 24-0? Was it a British ref under British rules that the final was played under?

I am actually all in favour of a faster play the ball interpretation. Somehow I think the NRL do rule on it quite quickly. I remember when they got rid of flopping and holding down. However the NRL coaches are very clever and train their players to wrestle when they tackle as it is the wrestling before they hit the turf that chews up time. Then while there is a bit of momentum as they hit the ground the players try and either turtle them, twist them around or twist themselves around back onside. Some teams even tried to slow down using the grapple technique on the head but that was quickly outlawed. It just seems like NRL players are well trained when it comes to these dark arts of slowing the play down at a high level.

Most things the SL players do when comparing them to the NRL look very similar. If there is one significant difference I see between SL and NRL it would be the defensive line speed. For instance when I was watching the English D-Line speed in the semifinal we had NZ on the attack in the first half 10 metres left of the post and 5 metres from the line. NZ decide to do a simple set play. The NZ hooker dummies right to a decoy runner, turns to the left and fake passes to another decoy runner, and then gives the ball to Hohaia who scores. The whole thing about it all is that the English defensive line did not move up and crunch them. Many a time have I seen the NZ Warriors try these moves with Stacy Jones only to see him and eveyone else getting rushed and driven backwards. In fact if you watch the replay you will see that Hohaia recieves the ball a fair bit away from the line....he is ALLOWED to keep running and the momentum from all that space to run has this little guy Hohaia barging through much bigger defenders.

Anyway apart from the defensive line speed the English look very impressive when they play. I am surprised that the English captain thinks the NRL plays are more complicated out wide where they use more decoys...I actually thought that the English had similar plays. However I suppose if they were used to marking plays out wide where there are decoy runners then Manu Vatuvei would not have scored four tries where some of them he had no one laying a hand on him.

 

[QLD]

Darren Lockyers pretty underated, people love him or hate him.. those who hate him are from NSW and they cant deny the quality player he is. Examples are that 2nd half against GB, Queensland.. could name so many highlights from his origin career, but his intercept pass in the third game in 2006 to win the game was sensational. The game vs Parramatta where he had the ball when the siren went.. (scores tied) to end up chipping the ball for Denan Kemp to gather and score (his 4th try in the match) was unbelieveable.

Come on Dan stop giving the NRL crap.. it aint that bad. The league is not dull and monotomous. State of origins are awesome to watch, just always watch Broncos games or just any decent club who play with an attacking brand of footy. Though yeah the PTB is frustrating at times.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

SOO IS awesome, I love it. But the weekly matches aren't remotely that interesting.

Gay Guy - Super League had two referees there, Ashley Klein and Steve Ganson, but the Australians will NOT use our officials. This has been a massive bugbear of mine for two years. When it's in the UK they Aussies throw their dummies out of their pram and always get their official to referee the last game, especially if it's a decided test, and we were never going to get one of our own refs down under.

A very, very big annoyance of mine.

 

[Gay-Guy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (St Helens RLFC @ Nov 18 2008, 01:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Gay Guy - Super League had two referees there, Ashley Klein and Steve Ganson, but the Australians will NOT use our officials. This has been a massive bugbear of mine for two years. When it's in the UK they Aussies throw their dummies out of their pram and always get their official to referee the last game, especially if it's a decided test, and we were never going to get one of our own refs down under.

A very, very big annoyance of mine.[/b]

We here in NZ are well and truly used to all sorts of weird things happening whenever we get to play the Kangaroos that we now just accept it.  The bottom line is that NO ref should ref a game if their own country is involved.  It should be neutral refs in every game.

 

[St Helens RLFC]

Absolutely 100% correct.

 

[melon]

But our refs are from the NRL, so naturally they're the best! Why not employ their superior expertise regardless of the competing teams?!

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