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England to Hold Talks With Gatland

Nigel Melville "We're still putting together a long-list; we're talking to everyone who could be considered a serious candidate"
WalesOnline "THEY'RE HIRING GATLAND!!!"

WalesOnline being sensationalist for the sake of hits?! That's never happened before!!!!

I really f***ing hate WalesOnline
 
Yeah, as most are saying it's nothing more than one theoretical possibility of many at this stage, being blown out of proportion by the media.

Would I be happy though? I'm not sure ... I'd feel we could do better, but at the same time he is a coach who has had a large amount of success from a low base and has built depth in a country that didn't have it. I'm not a fan of his limited style, but he has proved himself to be a very effective international coach within those limitations.

Can you imagine the hair-tearing with every squad announcement though ... who would be the "English Cuthbert" I wonder?
 
Downvote number 33 from you of all people.

I shall remember that

giphy.gif
I have no regrets - it was much deserved
 
Would be a good fit in all reality.
Non English coaches good enough.

I'm sure the English press will be moaning why not Lancaster or Farrell despite being the ones who help hound them away. (For good reason too).
Baxter not good enough yet
McCall ummmm

Why is Baxter not good enough? Also, aside from McCall being Irish, same question? I would much rather see someone with knowledge of the premiership and experience coaching a top team in that league take the reigns than someone with more international experience but no affiliation to the top league/players/country and a lack of deep knowledge.

I like how it worked with Joe Schmidt and despite the differences in underlying league/province structure, I think it could work with Baxter, McCall or Big Dean.

I would then also like to see us bring in some coaches from other backgrounds as assistants. Maybe a Super Rugby attack coach, keep Borthwick for set piece, maybe go after a league head for defense etc...
 
In all honesty, post-Schmidt the Ireland job shouldn't actually be that sought after. Don't get me wrong, they are a cut above everyone else bar NZ as a team at the moment, but that's exactly why it's somewhat of a poisoned chalice - good luck Faz Snr.

Sexton, O'Mahoney, O'Brien, Healy, Best, Toner, Kearney, Earls and Murray are all in or close to their 30s. I'd be surprised if many were around for the 2023 world cup. There are plenty of good young players coming through, but starting from a world ranking of 2 and being comfortably the best Ireland team this century, means that there is not much higher to reach and a potentially very long way to fall.

On the flip side, all of England's key players are 27 or younger. This means that a coach taking over post 2019 would have the best players hitting their prime come the next world cup. England also have had, by far, the most successful U20 team over the past 6 years. That means there should be no shortage of talent coming through.

Other things to consider from a coaching perspective, beyond expectations/starting point and player pool are; the relationship between the top flight leagues and the union (Celts and SH win here), money (France and England), media scrutiny (Celts, Aus, Italy seem kinder/more supportive or less interested) and of course potential for success. With all of those in mind I would rank the desirability of coaching jobs for top tier nations (based on Rugby Champ + 6 Nations participants) in rugby as follows:

1. New Zealand (potentially only 1st for a NZ native)
2. England
3. France
4. Wales
5. Ireland
6. Italy
7. Australia
8. South Africa
9. Scotland
10. Argentina

Thoughts?
 
What does the premiership got to do with International rugby?
I could understand it if like Ireland we had the IRFU calling the shots for the league but we don't so having a understanding of the prem makes little sense because what can they do with it?

WTF is "Deep Knowledge" or are you saying that Baxter who has coached 1 team all his career has more "Deep Knowledge" than Gatland?
Eddie Jones doesn't rate Premiership not because he doesn't understand he just doesn't rate the prem because generally it's a not a good ruler for International rugby, the standard is a lot slower.

Baxter lacks the ability to have a plan B simple as that, now is that down to him or the fact that he built this Exeter team to play one way I don't know but it has let him down in multiple games against big packs and he can't have the England team for long enough to build it like he did at Exeter.

McCall is prob the pick of the Prem bunch but again I just think he has the one plan and it works for Sarries.

Deano well he wouldn't touch the RFU with a 100ft pole.
 
What does the premiership got to do with International rugby?
I could understand it if like Ireland we had the IRFU calling the shots for the league but we don't so having a understanding of the prem makes little sense because what can they do with it?

WTF is "Deep Knowledge" or are you saying that Baxter who has coached 1 team all his career has more "Deep Knowledge" than Gatland?
Eddie Jones doesn't rate Premiership not because he doesn't understand he just doesn't rate the prem because generally it's a not a good ruler for International rugby, the standard is a lot slower.

Baxter lacks the ability to have a plan B simple as that, now is that down to him or the fact that he built this Exeter team to play one way I don't know but it has let him down in multiple games against big packs and he can't have the England team for long enough to build it like he did at Exeter.

McCall is prob the pick of the Prem bunch but again I just think he has the one plan and it works for Sarries.

Deano well he wouldn't touch the RFU with a 100ft pole.
I would disagree that McCall only has 1 plan - Sarries of now are very different to Sarries of 3 years ago, who in turn were different from Sarries of 6 years ago.
They used to be all about defence, and forcing opponents to try too much and expose themselves.
They became bludgeons, who forced mistakes through sheer physicality.
Now they've a good all-court game; and can still call on the previous 2 gameplans as necessary.

Baxter needs to do something away from Exeter; or at the very least, find something other than keep-ball to do. I also think he's a coach perfectly adapted to club rugby - I don't see anything from him that makes me think he can get the best out of players he only spends a few weeks a year with.
 
I would disagree that McCall only has 1 plan - Sarries of now are very different to Sarries of 3 years ago, who in turn were different from Sarries of 6 years ago.
They used to be all about defence, and forcing opponents to try too much and expose themselves.
They became bludgeons, who forced mistakes through sheer physicality.
Now they've a good all-court game; and can still call on the previous 2 gameplans as necessary.

Good point.
As said he would be my preferred prem coach, but I would still have the likes of Joesph, Cotter, Gatland ahead of him.
 
Joseph and Cotter (Rennie too - and Schmidt if he's interested) - then absolutely yes.
I'd put Gatland on the second tier of international coaches though (he's yet to show particular success at expanding beyond Gatball - which I really don't want to see England playing) - and thus on the same level with the top club-level coaches.
 
Although this is Wales Online stirring up the pot, I've thought this could well happen ever since Gats announced he'd be leaving the WRU. He was never going to get the New Zealand gig and where else would he go... as well as being a perfect fit for England.

Though I would struggle to remove the smirk at all the noses it would put out, a dominant 'Warrenballing' England would probably just about manage do do it.
 
Joseph and Cotter (Rennie too - and Schmidt if he's interested) - then absolutely yes.
I'd put Gatland on the second tier of international coaches though (he's yet to show particular success at expanding beyond Gatball - which I really don't want to see England playing) - and thus on the same level with the top club-level coaches.

The guy beat the All blacks with a B&I lions tour containing
George, Vunipola, Farrell, Daly, Watson, Sinckler, Te'o, Lawes, Itoje,

Which for me puts him aheasd of top level coaches.

Oh if we could get Schmidt the Irish expressions alone would be worth it.
 
The guy beat the All blacks with a B&I lions tour containing
George, Vunipola, Farrell, Daly, Watson, Sinckler, Te'o, Lawes, Itoje,

Which for me puts him aheasd of top level coaches.

Oh if we could get Schmidt the Irish expressions alone would be worth it.

True but the Sean O'Brien claims after the tour were pretty damning. Sounds like the senior players ended up taking control of tactics.

Also, there is a good chance that he'd attempt to bring Howler into the coaching set-up. That alone would be a deal breaker if I were an England fan. I'd also be concerned that he'd somehow find a way to get Dan Biggar and Jamie Roberts into the England squad.
 
I'd also be concerned that he'd somehow find a way to get Dan Biggar and Jamie Roberts into the England squad.
Ahead of Farrell and Te'o?

I wonder how long it'll take Tom Wood to selflessly volunteer his services?
 
In all honesty, post-Schmidt the Ireland job shouldn't actually be that sought after. Don't get me wrong, they are a cut above everyone else bar NZ as a team at the moment, but that's exactly why it's somewhat of a poisoned chalice - good luck Faz Snr.

Sexton, O'Mahoney, O'Brien, Healy, Best, Toner, Kearney, Earls and Murray are all in or close to their 30s. I'd be surprised if many were around for the 2023 world cup. There are plenty of good young players coming through, but starting from a world ranking of 2 and being comfortably the best Ireland team this century, means that there is not much higher to reach and a potentially very long way to fall.

On the flip side, all of England's key players are 27 or younger. This means that a coach taking over post 2019 would have the best players hitting their prime come the next world cup. England also have had, by far, the most successful U20 team over the past 6 years. That means there should be no shortage of talent coming through.

Other things to consider from a coaching perspective, beyond expectations/starting point and player pool are; the relationship between the top flight leagues and the union (Celts and SH win here), money (France and England), media scrutiny (Celts, Aus, Italy seem kinder/more supportive or less interested) and of course potential for success. With all of those in mind I would rank the desirability of coaching jobs for top tier nations (based on Rugby Champ + 6 Nations participants) in rugby as follows:

1. New Zealand (potentially only 1st for a NZ native)
2. England
3. France
4. Wales
5. Ireland
6. Italy
7. Australia
8. South Africa
9. Scotland
10. Argentina

Thoughts?

Think you're definitely ranking France to high. There's a general apathy to international rugby there and you have no control over your players as well as a majority of coaches having a language gap.

The Ireland job also offers you loads of control and access to your players, is very well paid, is an English speaking country, with well established systems and playing for Ireland is the priority for everyone involved.

Not that it matters hugely for Ireland due to promoting from within being the current status quo, so there won't be any attempt to induce outsiders for the top job.

I'd hate this.

I'd have thought you'd like it, makes sure the English won't become likeable again. Although it may make Wales less despicable.
 
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